Tool idea for an easy 2.5D.

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Lychee
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Tool idea for an easy 2.5D.

Post by Lychee » Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:19 pm

Hello.

Scripters I need you (I don't know how to program).

I would need a tool that would help easily create fake 3D characters.
I have a good technique for creating 2.5D characters, but it is too complex to implement (see video), so I had an idea that could make our job easier.



Basically the idea would be to act on the rotation diameter of the bones, and to be able to compress them from the circle to the oval until a negative parameter.
In short being able to create the switch from one position to the opposite position in real time and thus give a 3D impression.

Here is a more explanatory picture:

Image

Please tell me it's workable?
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synthsin75
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Re: Tool idea for an easy 2.5D.

Post by synthsin75 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:42 pm

I don't understand, especially the circle/oval thing. It looks like you want to rotate a bone and have it automatically scale to maintain that visual height in a simulated 3D rotation. If so, I'm not sure how you'd define the plain of 3D rotation, as it could just as easily be vertical or diagonal instead of horizontal.
Lychee
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Re: Idée d’outil pour un facile 2.5D.

Post by Lychee » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:52 pm

synthsin75 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:42 pm
I don't understand, especially the circle/oval thing. It looks like you want to rotate a bone and have it automatically scale to maintain that visual height in a simulated 3D rotation. If so, I'm not sure how you'd define the plain of 3D rotation, as it could just as easily be vertical or diagonal instead of horizontal.
I admit that my explanation is not simple (i'm french and i'm not good in english. thanks to google), so we will make it simpler.

Imagine two tying bones plus a target bone in a certain position, a classic construction for a leg (example my image above).
If we had a tool capable of reversing this construction in the opposite position and in an animated way (morphing of the size and position of the bones) this would open the way to a 2.5d which would be easy to implement.

To answer your question, yes that's the idea and ideally horizontally.
My dream would be to be able to make an animation of a walking cycle of a leg, and via this tool in the form of a cursor for example, to rotate this leg in the opposite direction while playing the animation.

I will try to find a way to be clear about my idea of rotation diameter compression, because I think it is important.
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synthsin75
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Re: Tool idea for an easy 2.5D.

Post by synthsin75 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:05 am

That helps. It wasn't clear that the circle/oval was the possible range when animated. Changing from pure rotation, to a mixture of rotation and scale, and then to pure scaling when centered.
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Maestral
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Re: Tool idea for an easy 2.5D.

Post by Maestral » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:14 am

Perhaps having a look at DK's idea could be handy -> link
Lychee
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Re: Tool idea for an easy 2.5D.

Post by Lychee » Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:36 am

Maestral wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:14 am
Perhaps having a look at DK's idea could be handy -> link
Oh yeah thank you, it goes even further than I imagined, it would be the ideal tool for my type of construction and to be able to control my characters directly or via Poser in 3D.

Edit: lol i was talking before i saw the video, so i thought it was the Poser puppet that was controlling the bones in 2D vue, but it isn't, so it's not really what I'm looking for, but it can be a way to follow.
Jesus_V2
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Re: Tool idea for an easy 2.5D.

Post by Jesus_V2 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:17 pm

Hiii..... I wanna learn this kind of rigging, where can I get the tutorial or the course for this rigging?

Regards
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Víctor Paredes
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Re: Tool idea for an easy 2.5D.

Post by Víctor Paredes » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:44 pm

This rig is very interesting. I'd like to know more about how it's constructed.
From what I can understand, you need a script to distort the rotation arc of a bone in real time, probably by using a smart bone. In flat perspective, the arc of movement will be always a perfect circle (green in the gif), but in perspective, the arc will be scaled down in X (blue in the gif).
Image
This can't be achieved by simply scaling the bone, because the arc breaks very easily by doing that. I can't think in any way to achieve this with the tools we have (although maybe it could be cheated with meshes...).

Is this related to what you are thinking about?
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Lychee
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Re: Tool idea for an easy 2.5D.

Post by Lychee » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:07 pm

Hi Victor, and bingo!

This is exactly what I tried to explain, "the rotation arc".
If someone could create a script capable of simulating this, then we would be able to make fake 3D characters easily.

My current technique is really too complicated, that's why I ask the scripters for help.
Then maybe you could simplify it, but I think it would be easier with an arc rotation morphing.

To avoid pushing you to suicide, I will not sharing my file of Wonder Woman with you, but on the other hand this file was based on this tutorial, which I have improved a little since:

Attention !!!!!!

Please note that the creator of this video (me in this case) is unbearably slow.
Please have a well-stocked coffee to protect yourself from sleep. :lol:

hayasidist
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Re: Tool idea for an easy 2.5D.

Post by hayasidist » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:56 am

in Victor's image - I think this is the principle:

think of the blue oval as the green circle rotated about a y axis centred on the pivot point of the bone, then the blue bone needs to be scaled to follow the x/y/z=0 coordinates of the rotated circle (and sorry, I really don't have the spare hours to work on this even though it's an interesting idea)
Lychee
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Re: Tool idea for an easy 2.5D.

Post by Lychee » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:43 pm

Let us drop these stories of diameter and see other solutions.
I created a new system of animation in false 3D, which allows to manipulate a limb (a leg in my example) in a way as simple as in 2D.



Go here if you want the file: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31250

But as always it requires too much bone in my opinion.
I'm going to continue my experiments with this new technique to create a complete character, but if this experience could inspire you with a script that would make our lives easier, it would be even cooler.

Otherwise, I also scoured the net for other solutions, and I found this:

https://youtu.be/apQLz15HPLU?list=PLlAk ... 5whl&t=414

https://youtu.be/b0Pxt3b5hpA

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=30778&p=175303&hilit=bvh#p175068

I think it would be interesting to associate @SimplSam's script with a real 3D model, which we can control live in Moho rather than via motion capture.

What do you think?
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synthsin75
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Re: Tool idea for an easy 2.5D.

Post by synthsin75 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:00 pm

Man, a year or two ago I was wracking my brain trying to do the same thing, with the same sort of 2.5D vector construction. I was close to what you've got, but never thought to have the bones translate across the stretching guide bones. Great job, man.
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