Switch Layers and shadows

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adub99
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Switch Layers and shadows

Post by adub99 »

Hi all, I have put a similar post in another topic, but it was the wrong one, so please forgive the noob mistake.....anyhooo, to the point..
I have a character created in the wizard in version 8, all animated up and moving lovely jubbly, THEN, I go and decide that I want to put a shadow on it (kind of a sun shadow thing (you know what i mean))
Problem is, I have NO idea where to start with all this masking and shadow stuff. The few posts i have read get right into the nitty gritty (create layers groups in there and this and that...all very confusing, but im beginning to get it....slowly)
I was hoping someone could point me to any material which could demystify the masking stuff for me a little, or perhaps give me a quick idiots guide as to where i should be looking, as the info on masking and switch layers and generated characters is scarce to say the least)
Sorry for my convoluted post, I hope someone can make sense from it all

Any help appreciated

Andy
sbtamu
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Post by sbtamu »

Some times I will make a copy of the character using the 'duplicate' layers button on the layer palette, then I will change the layer setting of the duplicate layer to 'multiply,' next, I use the layer tool, mostly the shear one, but Sometime you need to use rotate, translate and scale tools also. Try making a new project and make a simple stickman and practice this technique. If you still have trouble with a shadow, I'll make a video when I get home. Also, someone made a video once but I can not remember who, but it is posted on this forum somewhere.

There is also a tutorial in the manual that goes over this; perspective shadow in ASp7 is tutorial 6.5 I think.
Sorry for bad animation

http://www.youtube.com/user/sbtamu
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hayasidist
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Post by hayasidist »

hi again! in essence, the same reply as to your "wrong" post .. but if that confused you I'll slow it down. Gilles and sbtamu have said much the same - dup what you need and then change its shape. If some layers don't change the "outline" shape (e.g. eyes) no need to dup.


re switch layers: If you dup a switch layer that you've already animated then you get the animations duplicated too. So you'll get (e.g.) the hand shape changes... (but if you decide to change the "master" layer you'll need to start over with the shadows).

If the changes in outline shape are small, you might not need to worry about detail, especially if the light source is "soft". But if your light is very bright and will cast a hard-edged shadow then slight changes in the outline shape might matter a lot.

Now here comes the real challenge:

the shape that YOU see is not necessarily the shape that would be seen if you were standing where the sun is. So FIRST you have to change the shape of the shadow layers to be the shape that you would see from the Point of View of the light source. (e.g. a hand right in front of the face won't change the shape or intensity of a shadow if the light was behind the head)

NEXT you have to work out where a beam of light will hit the ground / wall / whatever after it has just missed the edge of your shape. that will give you the edge of the shadow. If the light is close and low (say around head height) the a shadow on the ground will be very long; if the light is right overhead then the shadow will be small.

If the light is small and focused you'll get a hard edged "dark" shadow; but if it's big and diffuse you'll get a soft-edged "lighter" shadow, maybe with a darker core.

and that's about it! ... until, that is, we talk about shadows on surfaces that aren't nice and flat .... :)
adub99
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Post by adub99 »

Guys thanks a load for your input, it's heartening to know that there are people out there who are willing to help !
If I may beg your attention for a few minutes, I'm just a little unclear on the duplicate layer.
Should I be duplicating the bone layer within the switch layer which the animation is on (say the side layer) and then move this outside the switch layer to add the shadow or dup the full switch layer.
I'm sure I read somewhere that you had to be outside a switch layer to do masking, but honestly I've read so much in the last couple of days my head is spinning!!
Thanks again folks, I appreciate your help and patience
sbtamu
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Post by sbtamu »

See if this helps any. I my not even be doing it right but it works for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUlgJTV1M2g
Sorry for bad animation

http://www.youtube.com/user/sbtamu
adub99
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Post by adub99 »

Awesonme buddy thanks. I appreciate your time. The only thing is (and this is probably a glitch of AS (as these things usually are in software)), doing this technique works great, until you export the movie file. A preview shows your copied layer as shadow, with the blend mode changed but an export of the animation returns your copied layer to a duplicate chatacter !

Annoying but sadly unavoidable lol

But thanks so much for your time thats great, think I need to look into masking or something else.....(scratches head lol)

Andy
sbtamu
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Post by sbtamu »

Just go in and change all the fills to black on the duplicated layer and switch it back to normal. Hide eyes/mouths, delete unwanted lines etc.
Sorry for bad animation

http://www.youtube.com/user/sbtamu
adub99
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Post by adub99 »

What can I say, thank's man, You're a genius. I really appreciate all your help in something i would probably never have solved on my own.

Take it easy

Andy
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hayasidist
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Post by hayasidist »

if you don't want to change alll the fills and delete layers...

imagine that you've duplicated the whole character, and done the rotations / deformations / soft edges etc ... you've put it in a bone group called "PersonShadowMask".

create a new group called (say) "AllShadows".
Add a vector layer called "Shadow" as the top layer in that group, make a shape, and Fill with the colour / opacity you want for the shadow. The shape has to be as big as the whole area that the shadow might be in (meaning that if your camera moves it must still have Shadow visible).

In Group AllShadows set GROUP masking = Hide All
Set the LAYER masking option in Shadow to be "Mask this layer"
At GROUP level (not in each individual layer) of "PersonShadowMask" set LAYER masking to be "Add but keep invisible".

What you have done is make a "cookie cutter" shape from the (distorted) person that HIDES ALL the Shadow that is outside the Mask. As the MASK moves so does the area that is revealed!

If you have buildings / trees etc, turn these into duplicated / distorted shadow groups; put these in AllShadows Group below the Shadow Vector and "Add Invisibly to Mask". You'll only get the one shadow when the person stands in the shadow of the tree... which is what you'd expect!

The layer AllShadows goes in front of scenery / action etc. If you need to hide parts of the shadow (because the scenery etc will obscure it) create a vector layer (or duplicate whatever) of the shape, put it in the AllShadows group wherever it needs to go in the correct stacking sequence (layer order now becomes very important!) and, because you want to take away an area of the shadow you set the LAYER masking option to be ... yes ... SUBTRACT from mask. (Order is important because if you haven't already ADDed there'll be nothing to take away - it's maths Andy, but not as we know it! :) )


next time: dealing with multiple light sources... :wink:
adub99
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Post by adub99 »

Superb ! I am amazed at the level of help and avice people on here are willing to give. Thanks....
At the risk of sounding like Colombo (hope everyone here's old enough to remember him lol)....just one more thing....

I want to make something (an object or character, im not too sure at the minute) just appear at a random frame (say 300 for arguments sake). Im struggling....please feel free to tell me to rtfm, I was hoping it might just be a simple one liner for someone !

Many thaks for sharing your wisdom, I hope one day my skills and knowledge will be enough to help someone too !

Peace
Andy
sbtamu
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Post by sbtamu »

On frame 0, open the layer setting and check the invisible box, at frame 300 uncheck it.
Sorry for bad animation

http://www.youtube.com/user/sbtamu
adub99
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Post by adub99 »

You see.....no why cant I come up with something as elementary as that !!!!

Many many thanks

Andy
macnavi
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Post by macnavi »

The way hayasidist describes the masking method, is exactly the same as the tutorial (6.5). The thing is that it works for the tutorial with only one bone and one vector layer, but not for something with more layers, like with my own character. I even tried a character in a fresh document from the Character wizard, but the result is the same: only one body part (i.e. one layer) is visible (see picture).

Does anyone know what I do wrong? I am following the manual to the letter.

Image
jonbo
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Post by jonbo »

Hey macnavi, check this video I did for you, it should help.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53649091/masking.wmv
sbtamu
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Post by sbtamu »

Sorry for bad animation

http://www.youtube.com/user/sbtamu
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