Poor quality mp4 rendering

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Maestral
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Re: Poor quality mp4 rendering

Post by Maestral » Fri May 03, 2019 2:55 pm

^ I`m aware of the list but UX tells a tad bit different story. I might prepare one avi just to try it for my self.

p.s.
On the very same page, where the list is given - there`s a link for encoding settings : https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/1722171
No avi
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Greenlaw
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Re: Poor quality mp4 rendering

Post by Greenlaw » Fri May 03, 2019 4:07 pm

AVI is just a container, not an encoder. It should still work if you use an encoder and settings that YouTube understands but, TBH, I only use AVI for editorial and not final output for YouTube. For youTube, I use the MP4 container.

Extra info:

For anybody who notices that their YouTube or Vimeo videos look too dark, this can be corrected by converting video to Studio RGB. But you can't do this from Moho, which is another reason why I prefer to use another program for final output for YouTube and Vimeo.

In Vegas Pro, I always apply a Levels effect at the global output effects panel and set it to the Computer RGB to Studio RGB preset. Naturally, you'll want to disable this effect for videos you intend to playback anywhere else. Off the top of my head, I'm not sure what the exact settings are in this preset but I'm sure it can be reproduced in other programs that offer this control. (I can find out if anybody is interested.)

Hope this helps.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Fri May 03, 2019 4:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
D.R. Greenlaw
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CharlieChompnChicken
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Re: Poor quality mp4 rendering

Post by CharlieChompnChicken » Fri May 03, 2019 4:40 pm

I am trying to get a better understanding of video compression and codecs. I have the full version of MagicYUV. Out of the compressors offered, which would be ideal for a Moho export?

The options are:

RGBA
RGB
YUVA 4:4:4:4
YUV :4:4:4
YUV 4:2:2
YUV 4:2:0
YUV 4:0:0 (GREYSCALE)
10 BIT RGBA
10 BIT RGB
10 BIT YUV 4:2:2
10 BIT YUV 4:0:0 (GREYSCALE)
12 BIT RGBA
12 BIT RGB
14 BIT RGBA
14 BIT RGB
FULL FRAMES (UNCOMPRESSED)

I know this information is out there somewhere. I have been trying to gain a better understanding of this for a couple weeks with little progress. The MagicYUV website doesn't offer much explanation. This is only a hobby so the videos don't need to be perfect. A nice balance between quality and space efficiency would be nice.

I have read several times on this forum that an image sequence is the way to go but I'm not too confident with how I will manage lip sync and audio that way. I am not using any program outside of Moho other than PowerDirector as a video editor.

Will there be a noticeable difference between exporting an animation through Moho as MP4 rather than one of the lossless codecs? The one I have been using is YUV 4:2:0 and I can't tell the difference after the inital export. I apologize if my language on this is incorrect.
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Maestral
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Re: Poor quality mp4 rendering

Post by Maestral » Fri May 03, 2019 4:52 pm

Greenlaw wrote:AVI is just a container, not an encoder...
Sure thing, but wouldn`t that page be the nice spot to tell what happens with the uploaded container? Hence my previous remark about YT`s encoding (if recognised!?).

Regarding the YT upload and smaller file sizes - there`s a free tool Handbrake which has several presets (YT included) and is really easy to use. Exported files size is noticeably smaller and quality is usually preserved. Usually ,) So, while still aiming towards the best quality and smaller size - I`d export avi file from Moho and then compress it through Handbrake (under desired preset).
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Greenlaw
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Re: Poor quality mp4 rendering

Post by Greenlaw » Fri May 03, 2019 5:19 pm

CharlieChompnChicken wrote:I am trying to get a better understanding of video compression and codecs. I have the full version of MagicYUV. Out of the compressors offered, which would be ideal for a Moho export?
I currently use MagicYUV in AVI but only for editorial and archival use because of the high quality and good playback performance. Since you have the full version of MagicYUV, you can use it in other containers (like MOV) too. (FYI, Vegas performs better with AVI for some reason.) That said, I'm not sure this codec is compatible with YouTube but I never tried either.

From Vegas to YouTube and Vimeo, I just use either Magix AVC or Sony AVC ( both a variant of h264) for output (the result will be an MP4 file.) The quality is pretty high and files sizes are reasonably small. Whatever you use, you'll want to make the quality as high as possible but not have to file size too huge to upload. I believe YouTube and Vimeo always re-compresses your video. Years ago, I saw settings you can use where YouTube would not re-compress the file but I don't think that works anymore.

The best way to find out for yourself is to make small sample videos (just a couple of seconds, maybe looped a couple of times,) with the settings you think should work well and a few variations, upload the videos, and then compare the results. You can make the videos private while you evaluate the results. Then, when you've decided what works best for you, create a preset for this so you can use it again in the future.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Poor quality mp4 rendering

Post by Greenlaw » Fri May 03, 2019 5:25 pm

One more thing: I was really excited about getting HEVC (h265) support in Vegas...it's much higher quality and this codec is probably way of the future. Unfortunately, I'm not having much luck with it. (In Vimeo anyway. Haven't tried it with YouTube yet.)

That said, since Moho is still limited to 8-bits per channel, it doesn't really matter unless you're applying additional processes and merging higher bit artwork when compositing in another program. (I'm still hoping the Moho developers will address this in a future release.)
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CharlieChompnChicken
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Re: Poor quality mp4 rendering

Post by CharlieChompnChicken » Mon May 06, 2019 5:59 am

I almost purchased Vegas earlier this week because it was on sale (wow it's expensive) but I figured I just recently purchased PowerDirector and it's probably a good starting place for beginners. PowerDirector has the option to export using h265 but the max bit rate allowable is significantly less than that of h264. I'm not sure why this is.

The project I was working on was a GTA V gameplay video with some small bits of 2d animation produced in Moho. The gameplay was recorded in 4k @ 60 fps so I was trying to find settings that would work between both the animation and the game recordings. Given that it was my first attempt at this type of project, I am pleased with the results. At only about twelve minutes long, the upload to YouTube took almost two hours. I don't think I will share it here because it is more of a gaming video and less of an animation project so I'm not sure it's appropriate.

I hadn't considered making private videos for comparison. Thank you again, your posts are always helpful.
Rutty70
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Re: Poor quality mp4 rendering

Post by Rutty70 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:10 pm

Hi all - just thought I'd add my two cents:

I find Adobe Photoshop the most convenient way of getting quality MP4s from Moho. I use Moho 12 (and now 13) for animation work and clients often want MP4s. I render a PNG sequence in Moho and then, making sure all PNGs are in one folder, open the first PNG in the sequence in Photoshop. In the corner just left of the open tab is a box that reads 'Image Sequence'. Make sure you check this and then open and Photoshop will ask what frame rate you wish the interpretted footage to be. Enter this and it will open the sequence as a movie (make sure you select Motion from the options in the right-hand corner to get the timeline - Photoshop should do this automatically but if you don't see a timeline then make sure you put Photoshop in Motion mode). Then add your sound and render video in Photoshop.

I think as Adobe make Premier Pro they have used the same pro-quality codecs for Photoshop - it's very faithful - colours match exactly etc and the MP4s look exactly the same colour and quality as they do in Moho before rendering.

I recently had to create some gifs for someone and I rendered these from Moho. Even though I took a sample from a rendered page to make sure the colours come in correct the whites were 'off-white' sometimes by as much as 4-5%. So I tried the Photoshop method this time rendering leagcy gifs and they came out perfect. I colour checked all the whites and they were exact.

I have to say the only thing Moho seems to be able to render accurately is an image sequence. I wouldn't use any other setting personally (except quick tests).

BTW if anyone can recommend a cheap alternative to Photoshop for getting a faithful MP4 from an image sequence I'm all ears! :D
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Re: Poor quality mp4 rendering

Post by SimplSam » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:01 am

Rutty70 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:10 pm
BTW if anyone can recommend a cheap alternative to Photoshop for getting a faithful MP4 from an image sequence I'm all ears! :D
Davinci Resolve - "Video Editing, Color correction, Visual effects and Audio post production all in one software tool". There is the feature rich Free standard version (which will meet & exceed your stated needs), or the full Studio pro version with extra bells and whistles at a very reasonable one-time cost of $299: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... nciresolve
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