How do I make my characters look full???

speedking4 · Post by **speedking4** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:51 pm

I uploaded some of my characters to show you guys the problem i am having. They are too flat and have south park written all over it which I dont like.Any tips to make them pop out more??? more 3d I guess.I know from seeing all the great characters on this site that it is very possible.
Thank you guys for your suggestions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VROpcg7uAvY

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:36 pm

They appear flat mostly because they don't move enough.

"Flatness" doesn't solely depend on the absence of shadow, highlights, and other 3D stuff.

Example: in order to show the volume of your character's head, you need to turn it. To show distances between your characters, you need to arrange them in perspective, deal with overlaps and different sizes. And of course you need all those nifty little tricks of comic artists who successfully worked with lines to let their characters appear more that two-dimensional.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:37 pm

I would suggest you study basic drawing techniques. The ability to create depth and form in animation is exactly the same as in non-animated drawing. Look for books or web sites about drawing the human form. Learn about the proportions and foreshortening. Books on comic book drawing can be very helpful.

It appears that some of your "characters" are traced. Tracing won't teach you about drawing.

Also learn the software. Study the tutorials with Anime Studio so you know how the bones work and how to set up characters. Both drawing techniques and knowing the software are what you need to achieve your goal.

-vern

jahnocli · Post by **jahnocli** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:45 pm

Google is your friend. Just found this -- 3 types of perspective -- after a very quick search. Each of these 3 perspective types will help give the illusion of space, (plus adding highlights and shadows to your drawings, of course).

speedking4 · Post by **speedking4** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:05 am

appreiciate your help! I just messed around with a character I made from scratch and tried head turns . Im really going to try to focus on the movement and speed(no pun intended)

. here it is I still need to fix the stomach. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxJJPgg2XE
Thanks again for taking the time to answer mine and other peoples questions on here.I usually dont even need to as ask since most of the time its been answered.

I was also curious if anyone was aware of some good websites on anime studio which showed keyframing and timing? If not something thats speaks about animation more technical then illusion of life from disney.
Im begining to to realize that it is more fun to to mess with a simple shape character than one I worked on for 20 hours that moves like a stiff.

I am so glad I found this program.Im a recovering toon boom studio user who almost blew his brains out with that peg camera bs.
besides the way it imports vectors there is no reason any independant
animator should ever bother with toon doom.

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:04 am

Hey, that's much better already! Of course there are glitches in it right now, but that's something to get fixed over time. I like that character much better than your first example, because it is really animateable in space. Your head turn is already good. Made me think of old and famous Astroboy ...

As for ressources on the web: I found some regarding walk cycles and put them here:
viewtopic.php?t=9813

I haven't seen anything in-depth about timing yet. If you seriously want to study this, you need some dead tree edition of the following:
Richard Williams: "The Animator's Survival Kit"
John Halas: "Timing for Animation"
There have been several new books over the last years, I wonder if anyone could recommend Tony White or something.

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:08 am

the thing with toon boom is its not really made for cut out animation, its made more for traditional animation which relies a lot more on drawing skills rather than manipulating a single construction... I wouldnt make such sweeping statments like 'no independant animator should ever bother with toon boom'

http://www.biteycastle.com/main.html look at 30 days:30 shorts at the top - this is animation based on draftsmanship rather than manipulation of single constructions - and i doubt he could have made 30 in 30 using AS, which is quite counterproductive if you want to create frame by frame animation.

That said - AS is awesome, but you cant compare the two really.

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:52 am

funk, you're right. Lots of people forget that the main difference between animation programs is not vector vs. bitmap, but should be single frame vs. object manipulation.

And since it's nearly Xmas, I wish to have both in one program ...

Nucleus · Post by **Nucleus** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:10 pm

funksmaname wrote:the thing with toon boom is its not really made for cut out animation, its made more for traditional animation which relies a lot more on drawing skills rather than manipulating a single construction... I wouldnt make such sweeping statments like 'no independant animator should ever bother with toon boom'

http://www.biteycastle.com/main.html look at 30 days:30 shorts at the top - this is animation based on draftsmanship rather than manipulation of single constructions - and i doubt he could have made 30 in 30 using AS, which is quite counterproductive if you want to create frame by frame animation.

That said - AS is awesome, but you cant compare the two really.

Very interesting you pointed out biteycastle. as Adam Phillips work is the standard on which lots of flash animators live by. the overall style is masterfully executed. also interesting is your quote on the counter productiveness of Anime Studio as a traditional frame by frame tool. care to elaborate on that? by the way, none of his work is created in toon boom to date. It was all created in flash. he is in the process of producing his next work using Digital Pro.

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:26 pm

Those are great animations on Philips' page, but it looks to me that at least half of them could have easily been created in AS -- probably in one day (which is to say 15 animations -- 1 day), assuming the same level of talent at the wheel.

If *all* of your animation is frame by frame it's pretty obvious AS is not the right tool, but a lot of the animation in those shorts is camera and/or layer driven, which is easily accomplished in AS. And AS can certainly handle quite a lot of the movement in those animations as well.

That said, I'd love to see a more frame-by-frame availability within AS -- even if I can't draw I might want to try someday <bg>

Nucleus · Post by **Nucleus** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:37 pm

Indeed. I was actually surprised to read that AS would be counter productive. It would indeed breeze through many of those "30 day" animations. if you want frame by frame, all you have to do is keyframe to "step". there is so much more, but way off topic to discuss.

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:55 am

Nucleus wrote:Indeed. I was actually surprised to read that AS would be counter productive. It would indeed breeze through many of those "30 day" animations. if you want frame by frame, all you have to do is keyframe to "step". there is so much more, but way off topic to discuss.

setting to step is all well and good, but drawing in single frames doesnt replace the last frame - all drawings still exist, which means you'd have to put every unique frame on its own layer as far as i can tell... which is possible - but counter productive to say flash, where a more traditional 'draw a frame, skip, draw a frame' workflow is possible

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:07 am

funk's right. "Frame-by-frame" means just that: you have to create everything in every frame again. AS is more like puppetry: all objects exist through the entire scene and get manipulated. I'd like to see both combined in one software, because each approach has its own set of limitations.

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:37 pm

the only possible solution i see is to have onion skinning of the previous frame on, and frame by frame moving the contents way off canvas so you are left with a clean space to draw... however every frames drawing will be on top of eachother on frame 0 of that layer...

The other thing ofcourse is that AS's drawing tools, including the pen tool, arent really made for frame by frame drawing efficiency. Ive also always described AS animation as predominantly pupeteering, and for drawing puppets is great, but the whole filling/outline/shape system is a bit too technical and, yes, counterproductive for frame by frame workflow.

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this thread is going way off topic, please follow to the 'frame by frame' discussion... viewtopic.php?p=50497#50497

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:21 pm

funksmaname wrote:but counter productive to say flash, where a more traditional 'draw a frame, skip, draw a frame' workflow is possible

When I would animate, say a mouth moving in Flash, I would work in much the same way people are discussing. I'd add a keyframe, delete the mouth, then draw a new one to fit the new keyframe. Is this not also possible in AS?