I have an idea and need help

[Ian7]

Ok I've been thinking about this and planning it for a few months now and that's how I found out about Anime Studio software and this Forum.

Quick disclaimer, there is so much I wanna talk about so before boring you, please know this project is only paid by revenue/profits, hope you still continue reading

I wanna make a full 20 minutes cutout-style political and cultural satire series, but here's the problem, as you will be able to tell by the end of this post, I'm not a writer and I've only been introduced to this software for just a couple of months, so I'm not an animator either. I’m a web programmer.

Then what do I have? I have the concept and the time. I think I know what needs to be done to make this happen.

There are several things needed to have a cartoon series like this one be successful IMO (I apologize in advance, I know most of you might know this already and probably more than I do, I claim no expertise in the matter):

1- Characters, I have a very good idea of who the characters would be and their roles.

2- Plots, this is the part that really keeps me excited about doing this. The first episode, for example, is going to be a 2 part episode with a big financial/political issue with China.

3- Script, this is very important as you can imagine, thinking of a plot and writing a script that will involve your characters in that plot are 2 completely different things.

4- Audio, you can animate the world all you want, but with bad audio production, you have nothing.

5- Last but not least, Animation, no explanation needed but I'll discuss further down.

6- A way to generate revenue for the show.

So what can I provide and what do I need?

I got the general idea, which still needs work, and I got the main characters and the audio guy is on board now. I already have 2 writers interested, unfortunately not much experience but they can work with a plot and build on it. Voice over, will be done by all of us, but I have already enough volunteers and the audio guy demonstrated that we don’t need to many different people to get this done.

And I need 2 decent animators, or 1 at least.

So the entire team would consist of me, 1 audio, 1 writer, 1-2 animators.

Revenue, I've considered all the different aspect of this making money and I decided not to shoot for cable and DVD releases, etc. but instead do something slightly different that has only become possible in the last few years, well, the internet! At least, as a start till the big money can come in. basically, have a good enough show/series and manage downloads on our website with advertising. Focus only on getting enough people to like the show and go from there. Also, make no mistake, this is not a just for fun kina project, I'm trying to make something big out of it, but there is no sense in shooting to be picked up by cable network just yet, we have to make a profit before then.

As far as individual payment and percentages to the participant, this is to be discussed amongst all the team members and I would like to get some advice on it in the open. But everything will be agreed upon before starting with legal contracts and all parties would know what they need to put into it.

How long would it take? Your guess is as good as mine, I'm thinking these first 2 episodes, 20 minutes each will probably take 3-4 months after the team is assembled, this is just a guesstimate. 1-2 month(s) prep for characters on screen and on paper. 2 months for animation and audio. And also keep in mind, most people working on this will have day time jobs, so I'm only expecting a few hours a day of each person.

If you’re interested, you don’t have to be the best animator out there, this is cutout-style after all, but you have to really know what you’re doing. Please let me know and if you have any questions or criticism, I'm all ears.

[Mikdog]

Good luck with this man. As far as 'you earn money when your work earns money' goes, I find these kind of things peter out after a while because soon enough the artists realize that they're investing time into making someone else's vision a reality and not getting paid for it when they could be having much more fun making their own visions reality and also not get paid for it. Sure, either yours or their own projects could at some stage make money, but I find that I'd rather spend supposedly limited time I have here on earth investing time into personal projects and gamble on that rather than on someone else's vision.

My 2 cents. However, I wish you luck with your project.

The other option is to take the gamble out of it and if you believe in it enough, pay for animation.

[jahnocli]

My advice, for what it's worth, is to take a look at Crazy Talk Animator if you are just ineterested in JibJab-style animation. This program makes dialogue a lot easier to manage, as it automates a lot of the facial movements necessary. They have a trial version if you want to download it and try it out.

[Ian7]

Good luck with this man. As far as 'you earn money when your work earns money' goes, I find these kind of things peter out after a while because soon enough the artists realize that they're investing time into making someone else's vision a reality and not getting paid for it when they could be having much more fun making their own visions reality and also not get paid for it. Sure, either yours or their own projects could at some stage make money, but I find that I'd rather spend supposedly limited time I have here on earth investing time into personal projects and gamble on that rather than on someone else's vision.

My 2 cents. However, I wish you luck with your project.

The other option is to take the gamble out of it and if you believe in it enough, pay for animation.

Coming from a web programming background, I completely understand what you mean, "Come work for me for free and if I make money, you get paid". I've heard it myself alot before. And I have done it a few times and it has worked a few and failed a few.

But my theory is:

1- I'm kina looking more for partner(s), not free worker(s), so if the person likes what they see, it would be as much theirs as it is mine and that includes input, creativity and revenue. I didn’t wanna throw out numbers and everything but I would consider those that help this started equal.

2- This show can not be done by 1 person alone, it’s just not possible, and my belief is that there are a few talented people who are just working on some projects for "fun" (absolutely nothing wrong with that btw), so why not work with a group of people to actually make something "real" happen. Not that I'm saying this is gonna be the best thing on web/tv, etc. But I believe once introduced to the project, people could also believe in the overall potential and decide that they wanna create this too.

[Ian7]

My advice, for what it's worth, is to take a look at Crazy Talk Animator if you are just ineterested in JibJab-style animation. This program makes dialogue a lot easier to manage, as it automates a lot of the facial movements necessary. They have a trial version if you want to download it and try it out.

I looked into that a little before but for some reason, I thought there were some limitation, so I kina kept looking until I found Anime Studio and I really like it so far.

The animation, if you will, is like South Park style animation, just a little cleaner, I'm not sure if that program could handle that? Unless I get nowhere with Anime, I might actually reconsider. Thank you for the tip.

[jahnocli]

OK, how about this for a suggestion. You send me a scene/character description excerpt, say five or ten seconds etc., and I'll have a go at producing it in Crazy Talk (which I have just bought). I'll get some meaningful practice, and you can see whether the software will do what you want. PM me if you are interested.

[Ian7]

OK, how about this for a suggestion. You send me a scene/character description excerpt, say five or ten seconds etc., and I'll have a go at producing it in Crazy Talk (which I have just bought). I'll get some meaningful practice, and you can see whether the software will do what you want. PM me if you are interested.

pm sent

[tonym]

Mikdog is right. Because you are not paying, the odds are good that your animator will lose interest and quit.

Fortunately there is one thing that you can do to greatly increase the odds of keeping an animator around: Make sure the script is funny.

When your animator realizes the script isn't funny, he or she is gone.

The writing of quality satire/humor is difficult. Just because a person can write well does not mean they can write humor, and just because a person is funny does not mean they can write humor.

My suggestion is to focus on getting the script done, and make sure it's funny - because the odds are substantial that you may never find yourself in possession of a completed, funny script.

Step 1: Idea
Step 2: Complete a funny script
Step 3: Everything else

Good luck!

[Ian7]

Good advice, I might have to do that first. I know I would be more excited myself with that in hand. I'm just trying to get everything done at once.


But let me ask:

Now that my inbox isn’t flooded with replies

1- If I were to just pay for everything, what’s the going rate for something like this? I know this is impossible to guess, but please try to give me some kina numbers, I wont quote you, I just wanna get a general idea.

2- Would it be wiser, easier or cheaper to buy things separately? Like character rigs, backgrounds, props and have someone animate them? Or just have 1-2 people handle everything?
3- What’s a full time mid-range cutout-style animator expect to make a month in a full time scenario?

Example, what should I pay for a character design? Again, these characters are basic cutout style but still need some creativity, and once a basic layout is determined, then the rest of the characters will follow the same theme. We’ll use The Simpsons and South Park for example; there is a character design theme that most of the characters follow, eye shape, nose, head, etc. you get my drift. Sorry I sometimes forget I’m talking to animators who don’t need me to explain different head shapes, but I can’t help it.

[tonym]

Forget worrying about what 'real' studios are paying. That will only depress you. Just figure out your budget and divide it up.

Let's say you have $5000 to spend on 20 minutes of animation...

If you allocate $3600 for animation, you pay $3 per second.

That leaves $1400 unspent. $1400 split down the middle will be $700 for design, $700 for rigging.

If you need 7 characters rigged, that's $100 per character.

That's how I would do it.

1) Accumulate money
2) Divide money into piles
3) Give away money
4) Profit?

[slowtiger]

Let's say you have $5000 to spend on 20 minutes of animation...
If you allocate $3600 for animation, you pay $3 per second.

What???

When I'm really really fast, and the work is very well organized, and the characters are already built and rigged, I still can't animate more than 4 or 5 minutes per month. And that's full time, including some weekends. And I'm no amateur and will take every shortcut possible.

Your 20 min would cost me 4 months. That would be 800 $ per month. Definitely not enough for rent and food, let alone taxes and what else.

[Ian7]

slowtiger, would you say that’s the same regardless of the style? In my case, cutout style animation.

I've seen some samples videos here and some of the work is too intensive so I can imagine what your saying could apply to that.

Let me give you an example:

Five people in a boardroom talking for about a minute, some facial expressions, hand gestures, minimal body movement, 3-4 different camera angles and no head rotation, would that also take roughly the same time you mentioned above?

[slowtiger]

Oh yes, it does. If you spend less time for the animation, it will be crappy.

I've calculated from my own experience with whole episodes, which include stills and cycles and talking heads as well.

[dm]

Out of curiosity, what are you (Ian7) bringing to this project?

Just a concept? (which you already gave away).

Every producer or director that I have ever worked with, at least has some connections and sales potential. Perhaps some of us altruistic fairies have nothing better to do than make your dreams come true-but so far I'm not seeing that happening.

[tonym]

I neglected to mention background art. You should budget for that, too.

Also, not everyone checks the 'Animation Jobs' subforum regularly. Getting a bunch of replies could take a while.

Lastly, since you know how to make websites, you might consider setting up a website or blog as soon as you can - to attract people to work on your project, to display your commitment to getting it done, to answer questions and so forth.