Looking for an animator for a 5 minute video clip

[frenchfunk]

Hello,

We're looking for an animator for our first 5 minute jazz/funk video clip. Most important to us is to find an animator who enjoy our song and that particular style of music
Here is the track:
http://we.tl/wUs8mIbMJ1

Context: We have released 4 years ago our last album but 1) it was not very well mixed .. and 2) we have completly forgot the visual part of the album, so there was no video clip (even the CD visual art was cheap, done freely by a beginner ...)
So for this new track (which is way better ), we really want to take our time to find the right people to have a good graphic / musical combination to increase our audience (even if we know that we're not doing very popular music ...)

Animation: We like the stop motion animation style but we have no idea about the time (and so the price) needed for that kind of work (it seems to it's very time consuming but perhaps there is some tricks to work more efficently !)
So I have two questions :
1) Do you have any clue about the budget needed for a 5 minute clip ? I know my question is too vague but I can reformulate it as : what is the minimum budget for a 5 minute clip that doesn't look ridiculous
I have very basic skills in drawing / animation but my thoughts are that vectorial drawing is perhaps easier to do because you can easily move line between each frame. Pen drawing is perhaps more time consuming because you start from a "blank" page for each frame. Stop motion seems less time consuming because you "only" have to move your characters between frames. I'm maybe totally wrong but this is my understanding so please correct me if necessary.

Exemple of what I'm considering vectorial clip :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN5zDHxAiPA YT integration doesn't seem to work for me so here's the link
Exemple of stop motion I like :
[vimeo]15559286 [/vimeo]

But we are totally open for the video. As you listen to the track, you've noticed there 4 parts in track with slightly different ambiences. So the only guideline is to follow the structure of this 4 parts (for ex, have a dynamic animation on the first dynamic part, have a more "dreaming" animation on the quieter part, rule of thumb I think

2) Is there anyone out there that enjoyed our track and ready to work with us ?

Thank you in advance for your help and interest !
Tom

[slowtiger]

Hi Tom,

a job like this I wouldn't ever start under 3000.- EUR, because no matter how simplified the style is, you can't do anything in less than a month's production time. And it's not just the animation: you have to considerate design and riggnig as well, not to mention the time needed to communicate between client and animator.

That example video (Baltimore clap) is great, but I doubt they did it in just a month. The other one is simpler, but I don't recommend that style: it's already a cliché to "draw" right under the camera.

Unfortunately I can't listen to your track. Could you upload it to a different service, like maybe Wetransfer.com (you could send the link by mail).

So, it can be done, but needs careful planning and some good ideas.

[frenchfunk]

Thanks for your advices 3k€ is too much for us, 1/6 of it should be the maximum . Do you think it is realistic ?
I like minimalist animation (I've grown up with the shadock on french TV ), but I'm not sure minimalist necessarily mean low budget !
The last solution is to take several months (or years ) so I can learn using AS10 but my level of drawing is nasty, I can't draw a cube without a ruler ! And then give my project to a pro so he can finish the stuff alone ? but as a musician, I don't like to finish the work started by others so I'm expecting it's the same in drawing community

I've changed the link for the song. Please let me know if it works for you now.
Tom

[jahnocli]

I like the music -- very mellow. But yeah, 5 minutes is a l-o-o-o-n-g time for 500 euros. It's certainly a fraction of the minimum wage, even in England! Good luck...

[heyvern]

I would suggest finding some way to raise the amount you can spend to at least make it worthwhile for a talented beginner animator. Maybe take your project to a university where students could cut their teeth on a project at a discount for school credit. Many universities offer courses for animation. I would suppose that these classes would very much appreciate a "real world" project for students. Call around and see if you could get some sort of discount.

(years ago one of my college instructors got into HUGE trouble doing this. He was a teacher and gave "real" commercial projects to his students. He used the best results from his students for his commercial clients but kept the profits. He was eventually fired when the school found out.)

Another thought, at that price you could possibly just throw it out there and take whatever someone would give you. At a "reasonable" hourly rate for a skilled artist that's barely a days worth of time.

-----

At the dentist years ago, there was absolutely no way I was able to afford an expensive procedure.
The doctor suggested I go to a "dental school". In order for students to get real world experience, they offer very expensive procedures at a huge discount... uh... yeah... students get to "practice" on you so you don't have to pay as much.
(This of course is in the US where we have to pay for our health coverage.)

By comparison the risk of this type of student discount for an animation is not so scary. There's no risk of death or disfigurement.

------

I have a question that always pops into my head whenever someone has a ridiculously low amount of money to pay for stuff like this...

When you produced your music how much of a discount did you get for things like, studio time, electricity, food, or petrol for travel etc?
Did you pay full price or only pay "1/6th"?

I often wonder why many people feel it is perfectly acceptable to pay a fraction for something like "animation" when they wouldn't even dream of asking for that consideration when they pay for everything else. Try asking your mortgage company or landlord to take 1/6th.

[synthsin75]

(This of course is in the US where we have to pay for our health coverage.)

People in every country have to pay for their health coverage, even if solely through taxation (with the possibility of leeching off the production of others).

That may seem off-topic, but when people ask for steep discounts for animation work, they are simply expecting someone else to sacrifice their own efforts for an unfair/unreasonable compensation.

---------------------------

frenchfunk,
It's understandable that you have to work within your budget. No one faults you for that. These estimates are simply what the artist needs to make a living wage. You don't sound as if you think you are entitled in any way, and it is commendable that you sound willing to try tackling it yourself if you cannot afford to hire the work out.

[heyvern]

Sorry if my post sounded a bit pissy and scolding. Didn't mean it that way... or maybe... I did just a teeny little bit.

I just hear this nearly everyday with every potential customer in my own business. They are fairly large companies that have already spent thousands upon thousands for every other aspect of their business and then want a custom professional website with all the bells and whistles for a few hundred dollars. It seems the less they pay the more they want.

Often we get people who call us AFTER they already spent thousands and thousands to someone else, for a website that is a piece of crap, broken and only have a few hundred dollars to have us fix it or do a new one... <sigh>... I guess it's the curse of any "creative" business I suppose. For some reason the time and effort required for that kind of work isn't considered the same as... a mechanic who fixes your car.

[frenchfunk]

Thanks for all your answers. You can have a 5 min song for less than 500$ and in less than 5 minutes because modern workstations do almost everything automatically for you I don't know if it's good or bad but it's not the debate.

It's clear that I now perfectly understand my budget is too low, even for a minimalist clip.
I don't want to ask a student for this job because we have already try this for our last album cover and the result was more than average, judge by yourself :
http://amzn.com/B004K46Q3C

So, I'll try to draw a simple thing with AS10 or another tool and if it's average, just erase it and use my cam to shoot a typical camera clip I think DIY is the best choice considering my budget

Tom

[slowtiger]

I listened to that short example of music and can't help but think that animation may not be the best choice for a video anyway.

You're a live band, right? It sounds like a 6 piece ensemble, or more. Why not set up a stage perfect for filming, then get some 3 professional cameras (which nowadays is easy and cheap) and film that piece 2 or 3 times with good lighting and interesting framing?

[Maestral]

After all said here, on this topic...

@frenchfunk
If you are satisfied and representing your musical endevours with the generic material (5 min`s song for $500 in less than 5 mins!?!)- why would you even ask any human to engage in your promotion?!
p.s.
Shall I mention that someone is skinning you alive with that rate of $500? ,)

@slowtiger
Why not set up a stage?! Well, cameras are still operated by humans, right? Beg your pardon if there are some scripts available for cameras, like Mode: Storaro. Sorry, forgot to mention editing as well - magic word is mag isto.

Et voilà, you`re just a few steps away from your break-through

[heyvern]

Another cool idea would be to "mix" live action AND animation. This would cut way down on how much animation you need and would show off the "live" band aspect or if not the live band whatever live footage you shoot.

By mixing animation with live action you could reduce the amount of animation required to maybe around a minute or less? Or you could simplify what needs to be done, like use simple "particles" or "pops" around the live action. This could look awesome and reduce your time and cost considerably.

[lwaxana]

I like HeyVern's idea to mix live action and animation. Here is a cool example starting at 1:30 and 3:40:
https://vimeo.com/28206099

[Aisuluu]

Hi, your sample video is frightening, hope you are not expecting yours to be such a psychedelic I'm an anime studio animator, and I'd like to diversify my portfolio, because mostly I'm working at children projects. So if you have script of you future video and character design I can help you with animation (I'm not good at character design). You could not pay me if you don't like the results, if you do 1/6 would be ok.

[frenchfunk]

Hi, your sample video is frightening, hope you are not expecting yours to be such a psychedelic I'm an anime studio animator, and I'd like to diversify my portfolio, because mostly I'm working at children projects. So if you have script of you future video and character design I can help you with animation (I'm not good at character design). You could not pay me if you don't like the results, if you do 1/6 would be ok.

Thank you for your proposal but I've changed my mind and I'm following now HeyVern's idea of mixing live camera with additional drawing. I've found people interested in my project in France which would be easier

Thank you all for your help.
Tom