I just noticed that some 'artistic' brushes flicker once the video is rendered. For example, I've used a furry looking brusk for the contour of an animal. On the half-size exports this wasn't as obvious because of the size of the picture, but at full res export I can clearly see the contour jiggle, or flicker, or wiggle... I can't really find an exact word for this.
I am talking about a completely still figure, of course, with no animation whatsoever. The line just seems to have a life of its own. Very weird.
Strange flickering with some brushes
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
Re: Strange flickering with some brushes
Yes, I've seen that 'chattering' brush problem too. This problem seems to happen with all bitmap texture brushes. Even when you don't think you see it, if you really zoom in on the render, you can still see what appears to be aliasing. I'm not sure if the problem is actually aliasing but it looks bad regardless. I reported this issue a while back so hopefully they're working on it.
In the meantime there are two workarounds you can do:
1. Use a lower contrast brush. I find that a brush that's almost entirely gray seems to work better. The issue is still present but it's not nearly as noticeable. Brush001 is a good example.
2. Render at double the resolution and then reduce the render in comp. The idea is to let the compositing program anti-alias the image. The result is pretty decent and it's what I've been doing at work. The downside, of course, is that doubling the project resolution increases your render time by 4x. (Eek!)
There's one more thing you might try: Set you're resolution to double size and use Moho's Render At Half Dimensions option. My theory is that this might do something similar but using Moho's renderer instead. I haven't tested it yet so I don't know if this trick will actually work--I guess it depends on when Moho applies its anti-aliasing. If it does work, it might possibly reduce the render time and save you from having to scale down the render in comp. (Will test this out today and post what I learn.)
FYI, the 'chattering' issue is more noticeable with slower animations. You don't notice it nearly as much in snappy pose-to-pose style animation. I know that's not much help when you have to do slower animations but it means you can possibly be selective about when you need to render at double res.
I'll ask about this again. This really is a major problem with brushes.
In the meantime there are two workarounds you can do:
1. Use a lower contrast brush. I find that a brush that's almost entirely gray seems to work better. The issue is still present but it's not nearly as noticeable. Brush001 is a good example.
2. Render at double the resolution and then reduce the render in comp. The idea is to let the compositing program anti-alias the image. The result is pretty decent and it's what I've been doing at work. The downside, of course, is that doubling the project resolution increases your render time by 4x. (Eek!)
There's one more thing you might try: Set you're resolution to double size and use Moho's Render At Half Dimensions option. My theory is that this might do something similar but using Moho's renderer instead. I haven't tested it yet so I don't know if this trick will actually work--I guess it depends on when Moho applies its anti-aliasing. If it does work, it might possibly reduce the render time and save you from having to scale down the render in comp. (Will test this out today and post what I learn.)
FYI, the 'chattering' issue is more noticeable with slower animations. You don't notice it nearly as much in snappy pose-to-pose style animation. I know that's not much help when you have to do slower animations but it means you can possibly be selective about when you need to render at double res.
I'll ask about this again. This really is a major problem with brushes.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2020 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, DreamWorks Animation
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2020 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, DreamWorks Animation
Re: Strange flickering with some brushes
Yes, it is a problem. As you noted, not all brushes seem to be affected. I can't spot the 001 brush you mention, but the one I am using is called "CK Hairy Toon (and a long list of numbers and underscores after that)" and it quivers like a centipede. It's really that bad, it's almost scary to look at.Greenlaw wrote: 2. Render at double the resolution and then reduce the render in comp. The idea is to let the compositing program anti-alias the image. The result is pretty decent and it's what I've been doing at work. The downside, of course, is that doubling the project resolution increases your render time by 4x. (Eek!)
There's one more thing you might try: Set you're resolution to double size and use Moho's Render At Half Dimensions option. My theory is that this might do something similar but using Moho's renderer instead. I haven't tested it yet so I don't know if this trick will actually work--I guess it depends on when Moho applies its anti-aliasing. If it does work, it might possibly reduce the render time and save you from having to scale down the render in comp. (Will test this out today and post what I learn.)
FYI, the 'chattering' issue is more noticeable with slower animations. You don't notice it nearly as much in snappy pose-to-pose style animation. I know that's not much help when you have to do slower animations but it means you can possibly be selective about when you need to render at double res.
I'll ask about this again. This really is a major problem with brushes.
Irony wants it that the animation I am working on are two living animal trophies, so during their gag they move but they also spend a lot of time still, which really puts a spotlight on the defect. Second irony: this work will be projected at a very large size, on a theatre screen, so even the tiniest imperfection will no doubt be seen.
I will no doubt try the workarounds, thank you!
Re: Strange flickering with some brushes
Oh, just to be sure, you do have Minimize Frame To Frame Randomness enabled for the Brush right?
It's probably okay in your scene because this option is normally on by default, but in some past versions of ASP it was off by default (ASP 10 and earlier I think.)
It's probably okay in your scene because this option is normally on by default, but in some past versions of ASP it was off by default (ASP 10 and earlier I think.)
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2020 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, DreamWorks Animation
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2020 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, DreamWorks Animation
Re: Strange flickering with some brushes
No, in fact it was off. And... well, turning it on solved it! I mean totally solved, not a hairline moving, even in full res!Greenlaw wrote:Oh, just to be sure, you do have Minimize Frame To Frame Randomness enabled for the Brush right?
It's probably okay in your scene because this option is normally on by default, but in some past versions of ASP it was off by default (ASP 10 and earlier I think.)
This is a huge thing, because I can solve the problem also in previous work I've done using hair-like brushes and where I tolerated it because of the faster moving pace (as you noted). Thank you, that saves the day and previous ones too!
Re: Strange flickering with some brushes
I just ran a quick test during my lunch break and, y'know, I think this works!
For this test, I created a simple pill-shape arm with two bones and applied a heavy brush texture, one that I was certain would chatter. I animated the arm flexing and straightening, with a hold between poses. Then I rendered out the animation at 720p and--sure enough--the strokes chattered like crazy.
So I saved a copy of the scene and set the project to render at double the resolution 2560 x 1440. Then I added the scene to Moho Exporter and enabled the Render At Half Dimensions option, which scales it back to 720p. I overlaid the result to the first one in AE so I could compare the results directly, and the second version didn't appear to chatter at all.
It was hard to tell if the render time was any slower with such a simple example. I'll run a proper test with a heavier scene tonight.
If you get to try this out, let me know how it goes for you.
For this test, I created a simple pill-shape arm with two bones and applied a heavy brush texture, one that I was certain would chatter. I animated the arm flexing and straightening, with a hold between poses. Then I rendered out the animation at 720p and--sure enough--the strokes chattered like crazy.
So I saved a copy of the scene and set the project to render at double the resolution 2560 x 1440. Then I added the scene to Moho Exporter and enabled the Render At Half Dimensions option, which scales it back to 720p. I overlaid the result to the first one in AE so I could compare the results directly, and the second version didn't appear to chatter at all.
It was hard to tell if the render time was any slower with such a simple example. I'll run a proper test with a heavier scene tonight.
If you get to try this out, let me know how it goes for you.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2020 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, DreamWorks Animation
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2020 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, DreamWorks Animation
Re: Strange flickering with some brushes
Ah, good. Glad it's working for you.
I think the chattering I'm describing might be a different issue then. Anyway, if you see that problem, there's now a possible solution for that too.
I think the chattering I'm describing might be a different issue then. Anyway, if you see that problem, there's now a possible solution for that too.
D.R. Greenlaw
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2020 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, DreamWorks Animation
Artist/Partner - Little Green Dog | Little Green Dog Channel on Vimeo | Greenlaw's Demo Reel 2020 Edtion
Lead Digital Animator, DreamWorks Animation
Re: Strange flickering with some brushes
Greenlaw wrote:Ah, good. Glad it's working for you.
I think the chattering I'm describing might be a different issue then. Anyway, if you see that problem, there's now a possible solution for that too.
Yes, your previous suggestion, turning on "Minimize frame-to-frame madness er... randomness" worked perfectly! Truly a great relief!
I'll keep note of your high-then-lower-res test, though, just in case different kind of chattering arises (I haven't used all the brushes yet).