Moho Forum

With this happening, I have finding myself having to delete a character again. Somehow, the character head glitches in the mainline, and behaves really stranger in the actions. His bones become waaaayyyy disconnected from his body, and scrambles, his head flips upside down and his face isn't there, and if u mess with some of the controls in the action (head turn 2 esp) then go to the mainline, his body become scrambled and a mess, until u go backward on the timeline.



I've tried to go back and fix this, and I can't because it just gets too weird. With that said, his Character is beyond saving, and now I have to start over. How do I avoid things like this. I didn't have this problem in v11. My only 2 guesses is not to use smart bones, and don't use the multi keyframe edit features.

Here is the file and I put notes on it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4zcs8v8at4x7o ... .moho?dl=0

eric1223 wrote:...his head flips upside down and his face isn't there...

This one is because the "Head" bone is keyed in "Head U/D 2" but not in "Head U/D". If you select that bone in "Head U/D" and reset it's position on frame 150, the head will be fixed. You'll might need to exit and reenter the action for it to display correctly.

...the character head glitches in the mainline...

You need to make sure you key frame one in a smart action and that the smart bone doesn't have the same rotation in both actions.
You also need to make sure only the animation channels you want controlled are keyed in smart actions, and avoid from keying those channels in the mainline to avoid conflicts.

Here's those fixes: http://www.filedropper.com/s3-2edited

Don't know if I'll have time to investigate the rest, but you might see if those pointers help with them.

Thanks Synth. I appreciate what u did. Now I know what to do and what not to do.

K, So I decided to remodel the whole thing all over and start from scratch. I did the most of the major animations first, then I tried to go back to make the smart bones. I got some odd results. Upon creating one and being on frame 0, I noticed the head lost its curvature, and anything beyond frame 0, the head goes to 1 tiny point near the torso, the napkin, and the leg stretches as well. This is before I make any keyframe.

At first I was thinking " Hmm, maybe its because I hit undo while I was setting up smartbones?" but I went back to an older version of this scene (a previous increment) with the major animation finished, but no smart bones. When I tried to add some, it did the exact thing.


Then I thinking "Hmm, what if the animation on the mainline is causing this?" So I deleted the animation from the entire document, and there was only a little deformation of the head. Thats the only thing I noticed anyway.

So maybe I'm not supposed to have a keyframes anywhere on the mainline before I start animating.

Here is the file.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7zzkezewa6rdr ... .moho?dl=0

Here's a much simpler solution. This menu script seems to fix all the problems you mention on both files: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=32714

It finds odd keyframes in the negative timeline and lets you delete them. If the list of negative keyframes is too long, and the YES/ON buttons are off screen, just hit "Y" to delete the keyframes.

Once again I boggle at how much time you have to help us, Synthsin75. Thanks again.

Follow-up question: When I get bitten by this, it's always because when I'm working on a bone's smartbone action (let's call that "Bone A") I've unintentionally introduced a keyframe for an unrelated bone (let's call it "Bone B") . This creates a strange interaction where Bone B sometimes appears to simply not work, depending on the position of Bone A. It took me a while to understand what was going on at all, but now I have the problem of trying to figure out which of the many many bones in my rig is "Bone A."

Is there any good way to do this?

Select bone tool dropdown, and select the name of the bone.

Thanks again! I'm not home yet do i can't use it yet. Really appreciate your help.

synthsin75 wrote:
It finds odd keyframes in the negative timeline and lets you delete them. If the list of negative keyframes is too long, and the YES/ON buttons are off screen, just hit "Y" to delete the keyframes.

I never need a frame beyond 0! I can only think of 2 things how ot happens. Does this happens if I pull a layer beyond 0? Or does it happen when I add a new keyframe that is not 0? Oh 1 final thing i thought of is if I use the multiple time line edit feature wrong. I noticed there is un reachable frames for bones if you forget to edit those along other keys. I need to explain this properly later on.

I'm not sure what causes it, but some tools do seem to write keyframes in the negative timeline. My guess is that they are meant to be temporary but some of them somehow get left behind (for other scripters, I'm guessing these might be where values like fTempAngle are temporarily stored). And there are some legit negative keyframes, like timeline markers and layer order, that my script avoids.

Considering the frames are around frame negative one million, I'd be surprised if it's anything you are doing wrong.

With my negative keys script it should be easy to check this if things start to act weird again.

everytime i adjust points under a smartbone and close moho after a save, the keyframes for the bone remains but for the shape point keyframes, its gone.

jeremiahbabers wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 8:42 am everytime i adjust points under a smartbone and close moho after a save, the keyframes for the bone remains but for the shape point keyframes, its gone.

I'm not sure what's going on in your project file but normally you wouldn't add points from inside a Smart Bone Action, you would only animate the points there. (Actually, I don't think its even possible to add points from inside a Smart Bone Action.)

Adding points should be done on the Mainline, typically on frame 0. You can add points on a later frame if you have Enable Drawing Tools Only On Frame 0 disabled.

If you are adding points to the drawing on the Mainline and not inside a Smart Bone Action, I suggest doing this only at frame 0, especially if you're a new user. Moho does not keyframe the creation of a point, only it's position and color, and it can be less confusing if you do this only at frame 0.

FWIW, I'm not a new user but I still prefer drawing only on frame 0. (Unless I'm creating FBF of course.)

Hope this helps.

well i actually animated the points in smart bone. when i was done it all worked! but when i save and close, then come back to it, all my work in the smartbone is gone. the bone keyframes is still there, but the points keyframes under the smartbone is gone

Ah, sorry, I misread your post. Now that I've had my coffee, I'm reading 'adjust' instead of 'add'. Duh.

Anyway, that doesn't sound right. Adjusting point animation inside an SBA works here. Can you post your project file? You can strip it down to just the bare minimum so long it shows the problem. Also, post a step-by-step of what you're doing.

Something to try: After making your point animation in the SBA and switching back to the Mainline, instead of using Save, use Save As to save a copy of the project. Now open the copy. Does the copy keep the keyframes?

If this works, I wonder if Moho is having trouble saving over the current file for some reason. If that's the case, maybe the file is somehow locked, in which case try rebooting your computer. If that doesn't work, the file might be damaged and hopefully saving a copy fixes the damage. If it doesn't try importing the project into a new project and saving that as your new master copy.

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 4:26 pm Also, post a step-by-step of what you're doing.

so i have a character that has saved points and two that doesn't.

i save the actions to file and import them to the ones that doesn't. the bones animate but the points' keyframes are nil or (aren't there)

and its not just smart bone. its the my regular actions too. when i import actions. the references added to the mainline gets erased. i have to import a copy to the mainline