Bones / Moho Stop Working

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katxande
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Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by katxande » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:06 pm

I'm having this problem for the second time, already contacted moho team once and they didn't find a way to fix this. Sometimes i get this bug or processing problem from the program when i move/rotate any bone the program just stop working and i have to wait like 30 secs until it comes back. Any one knows a solution for this problem?

- I have a good graphic card, processor and 16gb ram(is there any way to give me "power" to the software?

- Already tried to restart, don't help.

- I don't know if it is a "project problem" or a "software problem.

I know the bug only started happening now.

In the past the way i have found to fix this is just copy all the project and associate all the bones again in the vectors layers, but at this point i cant do it.

Thanks.

PS: I´m doing a animation test for a job, I'm a bit in a hurry.
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synthsin75
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by synthsin75 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:20 pm

It's likely the project. I'd have to see the file to diagnosis it more than that.

Are you running the latest version of Moho?
katxande
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by katxande » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:27 pm

synthsin75 wrote:It's likely the project. I'd have to see the file to diagnosis it more than that.

Are you running the latest version of Moho?
Yes, i am running the most recent update. Yeah must the project file, because the "bug" its not happening in the backup file.

Can you pm your mail, i cans end you the corrupted file.
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synthsin75
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by synthsin75 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:37 pm

katxande wrote:
synthsin75 wrote:It's likely the project. I'd have to see the file to diagnosis it more than that.
Can you pm your mail, i cans end you the corrupted file.
If you upload the file somewhere, like FileDropper, mediafire, etc., you can PM me the link to it, and I'll take a look.
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Greenlaw
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Greenlaw » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:39 pm

In the past, I've run into a situation where a keyframe gets created thousands of frames behind 0, and this error seems to create a huge performance problem, and possibly making the scene unstable. I haven't run into that bug in a while but maybe that's what happened in your project?

The solution was to find the keyframe and delete it. Tracking the keyframe down within Moho could be easy or difficult, depending on the complexity of the project. (It also doesn't help that we can't see anything before frame 0 like we can in other animation programs.) You can probably find the keyframe and kill in a text editor but I'm not sure how to do that. Maybe Wes can offer more info for this?
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synthsin75
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by synthsin75 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:43 pm

Greenlaw wrote:In the past, I've run into a situation where a keyframe gets created thousands of frames behind 0, and this error seems to create a huge performance problem, and possibly making the scene unstable. I haven't run into that bug in a while but maybe that's what happened in your project?

The solution was to find the keyframe and delete it. Tracking the keyframe down within Moho could be easy or difficult, depending on the complexity of the project. (It also doesn't help that we can't see anything before frame 0 like we can in other animation programs.) You can probably find the keyframe and kill in a text editor but I'm not sure how to do that. Maybe Wes can offer more info for this?
There do seem to be one or two channels that have legitimate keyframes at -1000000. But yeah, it's easier to find them by looking at the file code itself.
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Greenlaw
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Greenlaw » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:01 am

Thanks for checking that Wes. I hope it fixes it for katxande.

Just curious but, if you have the file open in a text editor, can you post a screen cap of the the key frame data and what part to delete? I haven't seen this error in a long time but want to be ready to deal with it in case it happens here.
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synthsin75
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by synthsin75 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:41 am

Greenlaw wrote:Thanks for checking that Wes. I hope it fixes it for katxande.

Just curious but, if you have the file open in a text editor, can you post a screen cap of the the key frame data and what part to delete? I haven't seen this error in a long time but want to be ready to deal with it in case it happens here.
Sure, but I haven't heard back from katxande yet.
katxande
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by katxande » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:11 am

synthsin75 wrote:
Greenlaw wrote:Thanks for checking that Wes. I hope it fixes it for katxande.

Just curious but, if you have the file open in a text editor, can you post a screen cap of the the key frame data and what part to delete? I haven't seen this error in a long time but want to be ready to deal with it in case it happens here.
Sure, but I haven't heard back from katxande yet.

Sorry for the long time, my brain needed some sleep. I´m going to upload the file somewhere and pm you the link for it.
katxande
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by katxande » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:02 am

Greenlaw wrote:In the past, I've run into a situation where a keyframe gets created thousands of frames behind 0, and this error seems to create a huge performance problem, and possibly making the scene unstable. I haven't run into that bug in a while but maybe that's what happened in your project?

The solution was to find the keyframe and delete it. Tracking the keyframe down within Moho could be easy or difficult, depending on the complexity of the project. (It also doesn't help that we can't see anything before frame 0 like we can in other animation programs.) You can probably find the keyframe and kill in a text editor but I'm not sure how to do that. Maybe Wes can offer more info for this?

I think the problem, was a non parent bone. Because in the backup file i have parented it and the bug was gone. But in the corrupted file i have done the same, but the bug still there. And if i open the Smart actions, the vectors are making a picasso art :lol:
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synthsin75
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by synthsin75 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:10 pm

Dennis was spot on. There were some keyframes hidden in the negative timeline. Here's how to fix it from within Moho.

1. Go to frame 1000000 by entering that next to the play controls into the Frame input, where is says "Frame _ of _", and hit enter. You can just put in more zeros than needed because Moho will only let you reach frame one million anyway.
2. With your top layer selected, use the "Animation>Set Layer Start Time" menu command.
3. Select your bone layer and hit the "Previous Keyframe" button, next to the play controls, twice.
4. This should show you some bone keyframes at frame 263. If it doesn't just type 263 into the Frame input.
5. Delete all the bone keys at 263.
6. Select your top layer and frame one and use the "Animation>Set Layer Start Time" menu command to set the layer start time back where it was.

All odd behavior should be fixed now.
katxande
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by katxande » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:10 pm

synthsin75 wrote:Dennis was spot on. There were some keyframes hidden in the negative timeline. Here's how to fix it from within Moho.

1. Go to frame 1000000 by entering that next to the play controls into the Frame input, where is says "Frame _ of _", and hit enter. You can just put in more zeros than needed because Moho will only let you reach frame one million anyway.
2. With your top layer selected, use the "Animation>Set Layer Start Time" menu command.
3. Select your bone layer and hit the "Previous Keyframe" button, next to the play controls, twice.
4. This should show you some bone keyframes at frame 263. If it doesn't just type 263 into the Frame input.
5. Delete all the bone keys at 263.
6. Select your top layer and frame one and use the "Animation>Set Layer Start Time" menu command to set the layer start time back where it was.

All odd behavior should be fixed now.
Good morning and thank you for take the time to look for it.
Yap this worked. But why do this bug happens?

Can you teach me how to open and look at the file code itself so next times i can just find the (bugged) key frame and do it my self.

Once again thank you. :)
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synthsin75
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by synthsin75 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:46 pm

katxande wrote:Good morning and thank you for take the time to look for it.
Yap this worked. But why do this bug happens?

Can you teach me how to open and look at the file code itself so next times i can just find the (bugged) key frame and do it my self.

Once again thank you. :)
I didn't need to look through the code to find this, but a Moho file is really a zip file, so you can open it with something like 7zip, WinRAR, etc.. Inside is the thumbnail image and a Project.mohoproj json file, which is plain text. But in your case, searching that for "-1000" shows a lot of legitimate keyframes in the negative timeline, so it's not very helpful.

I'm not sure why this happens.

Glad I could help.
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Greenlaw
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Greenlaw » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:35 pm

I've never understood how this error happens either but when I notice a sudden slow down in performance between two project versions, this is one of the first things I suspect. Fortunately, for me anyway, I haven't seen this happen for a long time.

It is, however, one of the reasons I create many versions of a project as I work on it. When I have to step back to an earlier version for any reason, it doesn't cost me too much lost time. (IMO, this is good practice with any program, not just Moho.)
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synthsin75
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by synthsin75 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:25 pm

I'm working on a few scripts to check for negative keyframes and unzip/beautify the Moho file format (might only work in Windows).
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