Bones / Moho Stop Working

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Greenlaw
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Greenlaw » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:58 pm

synthsin75 wrote:I'm working on a few scripts to check for negative keyframes and unzip/beautify the Moho file format (might only work in Windows).
Project optimizing tools? Sweet! :)

Speaking of optimization: When saving a project using Gather Media, Moho saves the project uncompressed, and the file can sometimes be huge. Opening and re-saving the file after running Gather seems to compress it correctly. This paragraph is is actually aimed at the Moho devs. (I need to submit a bug report if I haven't already done so. Edit: Looks like I did a quite a while ago and it's being worked on.) I'm just mentioning it here for anybody using Gather that might not be aware of the problem.
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by synthsin75 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:55 pm

Greenlaw wrote:
synthsin75 wrote:I'm working on a few scripts to check for negative keyframes and unzip/beautify the Moho file format (might only work in Windows).
Project optimizing tools? Sweet! :)

Speaking of optimization: When saving a project using Gather Media, Moho saves the project uncompressed, and the file can sometimes be huge. Opening and re-saving the file after running Gather seems to compress it correctly. This paragraph is is actually aimed at the Moho devs. (I need to submit a bug report if I haven't already done so. Edit: Looks like I did a quite a while ago and it's being worked on.) I'm just mentioning it here for anybody using Gather that might not be aware of the problem.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that, or I'd have been using it instead of the command prompt. Just as well I'm working on a Moho script to beautify, since that loophole might get closed.

If you have "Open and switch to new file after Gather" enabled in Document preferences, you can just save immediately after doing Gather Media.
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Greenlaw » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:36 pm

Good idea! I checked and it looks like that option was disabled on my work computer. Will check on my own computer at lunch.

Thanks for the suggestion.
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katxande
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by katxande » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:39 pm

Hello again, i may need help again :/

Never mind, i have repeat the guide and the problem got fixed. :D
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synthsin75
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by synthsin75 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:38 pm

I'm glad that fix is still working for you.
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by synthsin75 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:10 am

Here's a menu script that will automate this solution: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=32714
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Greenlaw » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:12 am

Very nice! Thanks for making and sharing this.
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Old Dog
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Old Dog » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:01 am

I have Moho 13 pro and it freezes on a very frequent basis, for almost any activity, changing layers, moving bones, using the roller on the mouse in any window etc. etc. It will freeze for 30 + seconds. I stumbled upon a fix for almost all of these incidences. Click on any one of the 'slider" buttons in any module display. Moho unfreezes instantly in almost all instances.
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Greenlaw » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:07 am

Just wondering, do you see this problem with files created in 13 or with files imported from older versions? Mac or Windows?
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Old Dog » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:17 am

I had this problem when using Moho 12, but only discovered the fix after starting to use V13. I do not use any other platforms, just Windows 10.
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Greenlaw » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:15 pm

That's really strange though. I use Moho 13 on my Windows 10 laptop nearly daily and I rarely see a performance issue. (One exception is when using the Paint Tools with a Wacom tablet, but the devs are aware of that one and they're working on it.)

Does the pause happen with any scene or just a particular one? The only time I've seen Moho hesitate like that is when that pesky unwanted negative keyframe appears. Removing it via Wes' script, fixes the problem immediately. So far, I've only seen that happen once in Moho 13.

If it's not that, I wonder if there's another process running in the background that's interfering with your install of Moho.
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Old Dog » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:40 pm

I am relatively new to Moho and animation in general, a rookie, but have used Moho for over a year, not on a daily basis. I have not heard of negative key frames before, but the description of how they affect layers, pulling layers toward future frames, is something I fought for hours trying to fix in the current project. Where do I find Wes's scripts to run and how do I run them. I pulled one Moho file in from V12 which may have introduced negative key frames in the current project. Some additional information. I am running an i7 at 2.5Ghz, 32 gig ram, a 1T SSD, and Nvidia Gforce 940. I may be running up against the limits of this laptop with the file size of the project. I could not find any information regarding limits, and how the content, raster vs vector, extent of animation with bones, points, etc, the number of layers, etc affects performance. My file is 1800Kb with over 140 layers. I have no sense of how this setup should respond. My only sense of the overall file size being a problem is when I pulled all of the text layers out of the file, about 60, there was a significant increase in speed, getting around in Moho. When I put them back in, Moho starts displaying the Moho Not Responding message and all activities slow to a crawl.

The freezing in my current file occured at every click of the mouse, regardless of what I was doing in any module displayed. As simple as changing from one layer to another in the layers list or rolling the mouse to zoom the display in or out or chanaging tabs in the panel below the display. A very high percentage of the time, 80 - 90%, I would get a "Moho Not Responding" message behind the name of the file. If I waited long enough, it would finally catch up and finish a particular task. However, much of the time, I could click on any slider button to unfreeze the system.

There is noting unusual running in task manager. A last bit of info, I recently put the SSD drive in and cloned the original boot drive. The system now boots from the SSD and when I updated Moho, after installing the SSD, it runs from the SSD, unless Moho is somehow referring back to the original boot drive somewhere during use.

Thanks in advance for your help!
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Greenlaw » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:05 am

The forum link Wes posted above will lead you to his script. If you can wait till this evening after I get home from work, I can describe how to install and use it.

Briefly: a negative keyframe is a keyframe that may appear thousands of frames before frame 0 on the timeline. The theory is that this unwanted keyframe causes Moho to needlessly evaluate every frame up frame 0, which can create a real drag in performance. For now, nobody seems to know what causes the keyframe(s) to appear. Fortunately, this error happens very rarely...but when it does, it can make Moho intolerably slow to use.

Wes' script crawls through the entire project, finds the key(s) and deletes them. If this is the problem you're seeing, the difference in performance after the fix is night and day. It's possible to fix the error manually without the script but it's a tedious process. Wes' script solves the problem with a mouse-click.

To be clear, this is a very specific problem and it only happens with projects or assets that contain the bad keyframe(s). If the slow-down problem you're seeing happens in all-new Moho projects that you haven't imported a 'bad' asset into, the cause is probably something else.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Old Dog » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:42 am

This evening works for me. I will visit the links to Wes's scripts.
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Re: Bones / Moho Stop Working

Post by Greenlaw » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:05 pm

Sorry, I didn't even turn my computer on last night but, finally, here's a generic step-by-step for installing a script in Moho:

1. In Moho, look under the File menu and select Open Custom Content Folder. A folder should open. This is where you copy scripts and other custom assets to Moho. For example, if you copy a script that modifies an existing tool, Moho uses this one. This way you won't destroy the original script found in the main program folder, just in case you need to switch back to it.

2. Open the Scripts folder and keep this folder open because you will be dragging files to it.

2a. If the Open Custom Content Folder is disabled, that probably means you didn't set this folder when you first launched Moho. No worries; just open the Preferences window from Edit and set your Custom Content Folder from there. The folder can be almost anywhere you keep your documents, like the Documents folder or on a secondary drive. If you choose a secondary drive, it should be one that's always accessible to Moho.

3. Quit Moho but keep the Custom Content folder window open.

4. Download the script and unpack the file(s). Usually, the contents will have a file structure starting with a folder called 'Menu' or 'Tool'. If it only contains a .lua file, you need to know what kind of script this is. If you only see the .lua file, it's probably a 'Menu' script. If there's a .lua file and a .png file, then it's probably a 'Tool' script. (In which case the .png is a tool panel icon.)

5. Now copy the files to their appropriate locations in the Custom Content folder's Scripts folder.

If you have a Menu folder, you can drag it to replace the Custom Content folder's Menu folder or drag the contents of the Menu folder to the appropriate category folder inside. Theses categories represent the categories listed under the Scripts Menu in Moho. (You can even add your own categories here.)

If you have a Tool folder, you can drag it to replace the Custom Content folder's Tool folder or drag the contents to the Custom Content folder's Tool folder. Inside the Tools folder, you'll notice that there are no categories here, the .lua and .png files all exist in the same location.

6. Now you can close all the windows and launch Moho. Depending on what you installed, you should see the new tool in the Tool panel, or see the new Menu script under the scripts menu.

In your case, the tool is a Menu script called SYN: negative Keys. Using the script is straightforward and there's more information about what it does and how it works in this thread: Find And Delete Negative Keyframes

Hope this helps.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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