Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

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Chano-kun
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Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by Chano-kun » Wed May 25, 2016 4:05 am

I have some simply request concerning some issues that sure gave a real headache when animating. It delays the workflow and don't let you to have the best optimization with the layers. I'll be posting those here while I'll calling them to my mind and I hope not to post something that is already available but I couldn't figure how to do . I've read the manual many times since AS 8 and also tried everything so I think I'm sure about it.

1-Markers in the timeline: It could be good. I use the onionskin to mark some frames when needed and it's not the best. Also I figured how to put a green marker, holding the ctrl key, but it's only one.

2. Let the actions to control the points, bones, shapes of the layers nested in child folders of the folder where the action is created: I don't know what's the issue whit that. If I go into the action (Blue background on the timeline) it shows that the action can do that but, once out in the main line, the bone with the action have no control in any nested object.
Honestly, that is needed. It would help a lot to do better pieces while being more effective, fast and organized. There were many projects where I needed to do too many bone layers inside a switch, each one with their separated actions and it's a pain :/

3. Let depth control to work for each layer independently of anithing: More specifically for those nested in folders. Sometimes I need to have a part of the character that is nested into a folder to be further back than one outside that folder. Depth doesn't work normally there because the folders appear to consider it's layer position first, so for example: If the layer I want to send back is into a folder placed as a top layer, there's no way for that nested layer to be on the back of any of the other bottom layers.
Last edited by Chano-kun on Wed May 25, 2016 4:21 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Víctor Paredes
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Re: Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by Víctor Paredes » Wed May 25, 2016 4:15 am

You are lucky, the first two are already implemented.
The third one can be achieved in different ways, for example, using Layer references.
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synthsin75
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Re: Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by synthsin75 » Wed May 25, 2016 4:18 am

Victor beat me to it, but here's a little more detail.

1 & 2 already exist in AS11. Timeline markers can be created using the button next to "Relative keyframing" at the top of the timeline. Nested bone (and smart bone action) control works fine, but you cannot have any bones in between the controlling bone layer and the object controlled.

3 can be accomplished with reference layers.
Chano-kun
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Re: Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by Chano-kun » Wed May 25, 2016 4:25 am

Víctor Paredes wrote:You are lucky, the first two are already implemented.
The third one can be achieved in different ways, for example, using Layer references.
I can't find how to do what you say in the 2nd point. I don't know if I was clear. Bone actions can't control anything inside folders inside an action. Can you tell me some more? Maybe it's for AS 11 only?
Chano-kun
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Re: Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by Chano-kun » Wed May 25, 2016 4:32 am

Víctor Paredes wrote:You are lucky, the first two are already implemented.
The third one can be achieved in different ways, for example, using Layer references.
Thanks. I see. The first one is a feature in AS11 already.
Gonna check the reference layers thing. The second point have no feature as I know. I'm not talking about the "Allow nested layer control" feature but the action controls.
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synthsin75
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Re: Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by synthsin75 » Wed May 25, 2016 4:55 am

Chano-kun wrote:The second point have no feature as I know. I'm not talking about the "Allow nested layer control" feature but the action controls.
If you create an action in the topmost layer (where you want to control it from) it can control all nested layers by default. There's nothing special needed to do this.
Chano-kun
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Re: Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by Chano-kun » Wed May 25, 2016 5:02 am

synthsin75 wrote:Nested bone (and smart bone action) control works fine, but you cannot have any bones in between the controlling bone layer and the object controlled.
No, actions can't control customized reshaping from nested shapes. That's what I'm asking for.
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synthsin75
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Re: Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by synthsin75 » Wed May 25, 2016 5:10 am

Chano-kun wrote:
synthsin75 wrote:Nested bone (and smart bone action) control works fine, but you cannot have any bones in between the controlling bone layer and the object controlled.
No, actions can't control customized reshaping from nested shapes. That's what I'm asking for.
Yes, they can. I do it all the time.
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Greenlaw
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Re: Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by Greenlaw » Wed May 25, 2016 6:43 am

Chano-kun wrote:No, actions can't control customized reshaping from nested shapes. That's what I'm asking for.
I'm with Syntsin75 and Victor on this one--I'm able to use Smart Bones to animate/reshape vectors many group levels deep and it works just fine.

Maybe we're not quite understanding what you mean. Can you post an example?
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Chano-kun
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Re: Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by Chano-kun » Wed May 25, 2016 6:43 am

For the actions thing, thanks.

I don't know what's happening. I recently just updated the AS and the first thing I tested with the old projects was that feature and it didn't worked, as usual in the old versions.

Now I just placed some circles in an all fresh new file to test it and it works... But the old projects don't. Not even opening them in the new AS.
Well I' think I missed to many versions. There you go AS, leaving me like a fool as always...

Oh well, anyway, there's still the 3rd point to clarify if you can help. Or not, maybe I need to test it again first.
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Greenlaw
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Re: Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by Greenlaw » Wed May 25, 2016 7:27 am

I think in older versions of ASP, if a group layer is bound directly to a bone, then the nested child layers won't be affected by Smart Bones, regardless of the Allow Nested setting. That shouldn't be an issue in 11 though. Just checked and, yeah, in 11 binding the group doesn't disrupt the Smart Bone action on the nested layers.

If the parent group isn't bound to a bone, check that Allow Nested Layer Control is enabled in the Bones layer properties. This works in 9.5, 10 or 11.

Hope this helps. If not, I'm not sure what's going on with the older scenes.

Oh, just thought of something else: open the Smart Bone Action, delete the Smart Bone's keyframe(s) and then re-key the Smart Bone. This happens very rarely but I've seen situations where a Smart Bone Action's keyframe(s) somehow gets corrupted and stops controlling the animation, but re-keying the Smart Bone fixes it. Just to be clear, you shouldn't have to re-key any of the animated items, only the Smart Bone itself. Of course, nesting has nothing to do with this problem but it could be what's wrong if your Smart Bone Action has stopped working.
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Re: Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by Greenlaw » Wed May 25, 2016 7:40 am

If I understand your situation with depth, yes, referencing should solve that. I will sometimes reference an entire character setup just so I can move some part of the body in front of or behind a different character that has its own rig. To do this, hide the layer you wish to move in the original and then hide everything except that layer in the referenced group. Finally, move the reference to the layer position where you need it. Because the rig is referenced, any animation changes made to the original will be reflected in the reference.

Be careful not to edit the referenced rig though--that may break the connection with the original and you will have to continue animating this rig separately. Technically,, there is a way to relink the reference but it doesn't always work for me.

This is where a Lock option for reference layers would be really helpful. Since we don't have that, I like to add the letters REF in front of the referenced layer's name and also set the layer color to Red as a reminder that I should leave that layer alone during animation. (This usually works but sometimes I still mess it up.) :)
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Re: Markers, nested actions and depth with folders

Post by Daxel » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:20 pm

synthsin75 wrote:
Wed May 25, 2016 4:18 am
Nested bone (and smart bone action) control works fine, but you cannot have any bones in between the controlling bone layer and the object controlled.
Hi! I've found this post searching for that kind of information related to what can a smartbone action control and what not. I'm working with Moho 12.5 and I'm seeing that, while the normal bone actions can animate every layer that is inside, the smartbone actions can't control any layer that is inside another bone layer. Being this post from 2016, do you know if there is now some way of achieving this? Maybe a workarround or some script?
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