Interface Preferences

Discuss ideas for new features with other users. To submit feature requests to Smith Micro, please visit support.smithmicro.com

Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger

User avatar
Lost Marble
Site Admin
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:02 pm
Location: Scotts Valley, California, USA
Contact:

Post by Lost Marble »

nobudget wrote:I was referring to Lost Marble stating "Maybe for version 6 we'll go back to one window and everyone can take turns loving or hating the interface". It was a joke (I think) but it was not a satisfying answer because it still does not explain why there is no docking option.
Yes, I was kidding - hence the smilie. :wink:
As far as a satisfactory answer, I guess there are two reasons:

1. Moho uses a custom user interface engine. This gives us great benefits like easy cross-platform compatibility, but it also makes some things hard or impossible. An example being docking windows: our user interface toolkit just doesn't have that feature.

2. Maybe it's because our toolkit doesn't support docking windows, but to be honest, we never considered them. Personally, I really dislike docking windows. It seems that when you try to dock them, you never really know quite where they'll end up. Everybody seems to have their own personal preferences...
nobudget wrote:As regarding to your comment "can't you arrange the windows so it looks like it did with 4.5 anyway" the answer is "no".
I have to disagree here. It seems to me that version 5 can be set up almost exactly like version 4. Here's a version 4 screenshot:

Image

And here's a version 5 screenshot with the windows arranged to be as close as possible. I honestly don't see any significant difference between these two:

Image

Plus, version 5's multiple windows give you more flexibility. For example, when animating, you can get rid of the Style window and make the Timeline much larger so you can concentrate on your keyframes:

Image

Or, when drawing, you can get rid of the other windows altogether. As long as you learn the hotkeys, you can even get rid of the Tools window:

Image

And of course, if you're lucky enough to have two monitors, you can set up one with the main Moho window, and one with a giant timeline (especially nice if you like to work in graph mode):

Image

The only real problem I see is if you maximize the main Moho window. In that case, yes, the menus can go behind other windows and the editing view can be blocked by them:

Image

This is a problem, but the solution is just "don't do that". In Photoshop you can block your work area with floating windows too. There are tons of professional Photoshop users out there who either don't do that or learn to work with floating windows in the way:

Image

My advice would be to just not maximize the main Moho window. Go ahead and resize it manually as large as you want and avoid placing the floating windows on top of it - it really doesn't seem that hard.
nobudget
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:01 pm
Contact:

Post by nobudget »

Thanks for the reply, I figured it was a technical issue, glad to see it confirmed. Your screenshots illustrate what I had too, especially the main window. The drawing area becomes smaller because you need to have all pull down menus in sight. In only use 1024X768, I'll try switching to a higher mode and see how that looks. Personally I'm just not a two monitor type of person.

If I work with Moho some more I might get used to it. My dislike for Adobe products might be a factor too, I'm all for configuration but a developper should be able to create a layout that fits the purpose best. Don't take that as a negative comment, this is how I tend to seperate the good software from the not-so-good. How long does it take after I look at the program for the first time until I get the hang of it, a well planned screen layout goes a long way.

Anyway, Moho is still a great and innovative piece of software, and as a non-programmer I hope people will start sharing their Lua scripts so I can see what tricks Moho can do now.

Thanks,

Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com
User avatar
Manu
Posts: 325
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:11 pm
Contact:

Post by Manu »

Well, that should put an end to the disussion. Just out of curiosity, what are you using to develop the interface?
User avatar
Lost Marble
Site Admin
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:02 pm
Location: Scotts Valley, California, USA
Contact:

Post by Lost Marble »

Manu wrote:Just out of curiosity, what are you using to develop the interface?
Do you mean which language? C++.
User avatar
Manu
Posts: 325
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:11 pm
Contact:

Post by Manu »

Lost Marble wrote:Do you mean which language? C++.
No, I was wondering about this:
1. Moho uses a custom user interface engine. This gives us great benefits like easy cross-platform compatibility, but it also makes some things hard or impossible. An example being docking windows: our user interface toolkit just doesn't have that feature.
I just would like to teach myself to program, probably Phyton and am researching which tools to use. I always come across the "cross-platform" buzzword, but wonder how well it works in the real world.
User avatar
Lost Marble
Site Admin
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:02 pm
Location: Scotts Valley, California, USA
Contact:

Post by Lost Marble »

Oh, I see. The user interface toolkit we use is one we developed internally. It took quite a while to develop, but once it was finished, any GUI code we write works on Windows, Mac, or Linux. That's why Moho's interface looks "different". Instead of having to write a dialog box for Windows, a separate one for Mac, and a separate one for Linux, we just write one Lost Marble dialog (LM_Dialog), and it gets compiles for each operating system. Instead of using platform-specific widgets, Moho draws and handles the user interaction for all objects on the screen.

If you want to create cross-platform GUI programs in Python, I would take a look at wxPython:

http://www.wxpython.org/
lundon
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: Orange County, California

Post by lundon »

"As long as you learn the hotkeys, you can even get rid of the Tools window: "

What are the hotkeys for the Tools window and the Layers window? (They are not listed on the drop down).

Also, any chance of adding the ability to save (and recall) your favorite windows arrangements?
User avatar
Lost Marble
Site Admin
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:02 pm
Location: Scotts Valley, California, USA
Contact:

Post by Lost Marble »

There aren't shortcuts to show and hide the Tools and Layers windows. The hotkeys I was referring to were for the tools. For example, A for Add Point, T for Translate Points, etc. I don't imagine that most people will work with the Tools window hidden, but it is possible if you learn those hotkeys.

Moho should be storing and recalling the window positions from when you last ran it, but as far as saving multiple layouts, probably not.
Barliesque
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:58 am
Location: Los Angeles

Post by Barliesque »

Lost Marble wrote:Moho should be storing and recalling the window positions from when you last ran it...
For the most part it does, but on my dual-display system I find that the timeline--which I've placed on the secondary monitor--is always restored to the primary monitor. It seems to be placed at a default position, yet remembers the size from when I last closed Moho.
Lost Marble wrote:The user interface toolkit we use is one we developed internally. It took quite a while to develop, but once it was finished, any GUI code we write works on Windows, Mac, or Linux.
I know it would be a very significant undertaking, and I suggest it only as something to go somewhere low on the todo list. :) If you developed the GUI, then surely you have the power to add dockable paletts. I have to agree with you that some applications (such as Flash!) handle docking paletts in an annoyingly unpredictable manner. But I don't think they all do--Photoshop and AfterEffects do quite well, I think. Adobe uses several nice innovations that would be worth having a look at... but again, I think it's kind of a low priority for this version of Moho. It's also a can of worms, in terms of programming. And Moho doesn't really have that many pallets anyway! :D ...although I'm sure the LUA script writers will remedy that.

By the way, Moho 5's GUI really looks great. I'm seriously looking forward to getting down to learning it (and purchasing it!!) and taking my animation to the next level.
User avatar
Lost Marble
Site Admin
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:02 pm
Location: Scotts Valley, California, USA
Contact:

Post by Lost Marble »

Barliesque wrote:If you developed the GUI, then surely you have the power to add dockable paletts.
Oh, sure. I was just explaining that it's not as simple as just flipping a switch. It may happen in the future (no promises), but it's not going to happen for version 5.
Barliesque wrote:Adobe uses several nice innovations that would be worth having a look at... but again, I think it's kind of a low priority for this.
Now that's a dangerous area. Adobe and Macromedia had a big battle over this a while ago. I don't remember which one sued the other, but apparently one of them has a patent on something like dockable tabbed tool windows.
User avatar
spasmodic_cheese
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:02 am

Post by spasmodic_cheese »

*patents the use of oxygen on humans*
Barliesque
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:58 am
Location: Los Angeles

Post by Barliesque »

Now that's a dangerous area
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. What a load of old cobblers!
If only I'd taken out a patent on absurd lawsuits. :lol:

One other suggestion that might be do-able in the nearer future: Palette snapping --so that as you move or resize a palette, it snaps into place alongside other palettes or the edge of the screen.

That's a nice simple thing to make it easier to place your palettes neatly, so you don't have bits of the desktop showing through, etc. I'd say that would be a far simpler feature that could make this whole separate-windows issue a little easier for people to adapt to.
ScottR
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:28 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by ScottR »

Barliesque wrote:What about making windows dockable? That way we don't have to take turns. :wink:
I think that dockable pallet windows would be the way to go. I would like to have the tool pallet within the main design window and not hiding it.

I use two monitors but, my problem with version 5 is the tool pallet window is so large it covers the main design window. The tool pallet window size can not be changed by draging the corners of the window. If the window is moved accross another window or outside of the monitors viewable range, all of the tool icons leave annoying trails within the tool pallet window. The style pallet is the same as the tool pallet it is not resizeable and it's so large it covers everything.

Floating windows, no problem but, you should be able to resize them and making them dockable would really be nice and maybe preferences setup for the pallets too.

Thanks
ScottR
ScottR
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:28 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by ScottR »

And here's a version 5 screenshot with the windows arranged to be as close as possible. I honestly don't see any significant difference between these two:

Image

That's great but the tool pallet and the style pallet can't be resized as you show here.

ScottR
User avatar
Lost Marble
Site Admin
Posts: 2347
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:02 pm
Location: Scotts Valley, California, USA
Contact:

Post by Lost Marble »

ScottR wrote:That's great but the tool pallet and the style pallet can't be resized as you show here.
The tool and style windows were not resized in that picture. However, that is a picture of a 1280x1024 screen, so it may not look exactly like yours. Here's an example of a 1024x768 screen - the tool and style windows are exactly the same size, but things are crammed in a little tighter:

Image
Post Reply