Random-Seed for "Noisy"-Keyframe-Type

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DrNibbert
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Random-Seed for "Noisy"-Keyframe-Type

Post by DrNibbert » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:39 am

Hello everyone!

When i use the wiggle-expression in AfterEffects, it creates different results for each instance, but when i use the Noisy-Keyframe in Moho, it produces the exact same Noise-Pattern for each Keyframe.

I think this wiggle/Noisy-functionality is very powerful, because it lets me automate very much and i don't have to create random movement "by hand" (for example for background-elements and secondary characters) but it is almost unusable if all the noise-patterns are synched - that way every random movement looks the same.

Other programs offer a "Random-Seed"-Parameter, that allows to create a different noise-pattern for every Random-Seed-Number entered.
I think this would be an awesome and probably easy to implement addition to Moho :-)

Let me know what you think about it!
Showreel 2018 https://vimeo.com/254290989 - Moho 12.5.1, macOS 10.10, Adobe CS6
hayasidist
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Re: Random-Seed for "Noisy"-Keyframe-Type

Post by hayasidist » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:05 pm

I'm not seeing this sync'd behaviour when I create keyframes for noisy point motion - but noisy layer translation does seem to be sync'd. I'm of the opinion that the random number (which is present in the internal data for each layer) is not being revised in the copy when copying a layer and possibly not being used properly for some noisy keyframe types - so IMHO it could be a bug or two.

by way of workaround, if the issue is with noisy layer motion, you could use the sequencer to shift the layers a frame of two relative to each other.

@DrNibbert -- what keyframe type(s) are giving you problems?

@everyone: Anyone else have an opinion on the potential bug(s)??
DrNibbert
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Re: Random-Seed for "Noisy"-Keyframe-Type

Post by DrNibbert » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:35 pm

Hello, thanks for your feedback!
I've attached a file with an example - even if the movement is on another layer, or the keyframe is offset in time, the movement is perfectly in synch.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/goag2t3b2mc96 ... .moho?dl=0

I see the synching occurr on Layer- (Position, Scale, Rotation), Bones- (Position, Scale, Rotation) and also Points-Keyframes.

Offsetting the layers in the sequencer does work, but this is not allways possible, for example if i want bones on the same bonelayer to behave differently.
Offsetting the Keyframes on the same layer does not work unfortunately.


(I'm on 12.5 OSX-Version)
Showreel 2018 https://vimeo.com/254290989 - Moho 12.5.1, macOS 10.10, Adobe CS6
hayasidist
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Re: Random-Seed for "Noisy"-Keyframe-Type

Post by hayasidist » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:12 pm

yeah - the way that noisy works in the example is -- well -- dire. Even tweaking the "noisy" params and the keyed rotations for the bone wiggles didn't produce what I'd call an adequate outcome.
This has my vote! (and request logged - mantis ref 39820)
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synthsin75
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Re: Random-Seed for "Noisy"-Keyframe-Type

Post by synthsin75 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:15 pm

Not an ideal solution, by any means, but as a workaround, you can utilize the random seed in a particle layer to properly randomize the noisy playback of individual layers. By setting the particle layer to only show one particle, with zero lifetime, velocity, velocity spread, and rate, you can always hit the Randomize button to reseed if the noise is too similar.

Granted, this only works on a per layer basis, so multiple bones on one layer cannot be reseeded this way. So very limited, but it might help in many cases.
mrc
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Re: Random-Seed for "Noisy"-Keyframe-Type

Post by mrc » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:38 pm

hayasidist wrote:This has my vote! (and request logged - mantis ref 39820)
Mine as well. Thank you for logging the request.
I had a similar problem only days ago.

Marc
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chucky
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Re: Random-Seed for "Noisy"-Keyframe-Type

Post by chucky » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:04 pm

I have requested this numerous times over the years.
The pattern isn't random at all, it just has a 'randomness'
It also has a linear interpolation between the ( invisible) keys in the pattern.
To see it easily go to the motion graph and look at the noise pattern.
That way you can confirm what is noted.
You can change the settings of the noise pattern but it just stretches it.

That's all I can say.
I can just keep requesting it, but I'm a lone voice, maybe another user making a formal request might help.
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DrNibbert
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Re: Random-Seed for "Noisy"-Keyframe-Type

Post by DrNibbert » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:37 am

hayasidist wrote:This has my vote! (and request logged - mantis ref 39820)
Awesome! Great to hear! :D
Showreel 2018 https://vimeo.com/254290989 - Moho 12.5.1, macOS 10.10, Adobe CS6
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chucky
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Re: Random-Seed for "Noisy"-Keyframe-Type

Post by chucky » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:33 am

Cheers Hayasidist :D
Dr Nibbert you could write to support too and request it. I don't think it would be a difficult feature, but one easily ignored.
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DrNibbert
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Re: Random-Seed for "Noisy"-Keyframe-Type

Post by DrNibbert » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:57 am

chucky wrote:You could write to support too and request it. I don't think it would be a difficult feature, but one easily ignored.
Great idea! I didn't want to "spam" the support :-D But youre right, i will write them!
Showreel 2018 https://vimeo.com/254290989 - Moho 12.5.1, macOS 10.10, Adobe CS6
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