3D Vector Shapes

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Rudiger
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:25 am

3D Vector Shapes

Post by Rudiger »

Postality posted this in the "Request for top 10 Anime Studio Pro Version 6 Features" thread a while back and I thought it warranted further discussion.

It seems like adding extra 3D functionality to Anime Studio is a bit controversial, so please don't post if you are against the idea of more 3D features in Anime Studio. The way I see it is that any feature that can improve efficiency or quality of a finished 2D animation should be explored, regardless of whether it is a 2D concept or 3D concept.
Postality wrote: one more thing I'd like to add to my small list is:
3D Vector

Such as this program: http://www.erain.com/products/swift3d/

However with Anime Studio's interface it would be a lot easier to achieve this kinda thing than it would be in swift 3D...

Just to add a bit to this, the 3D vector part of Anime Studio would mean building something in 3D with the vector draw tools and being able to export it as the normal formats at render time such as AVI, and MOV.
I agree that Anime Studio's approach of spline connected points would translate really well to 3D. Here's an example of how I think it could work.

Image

Assume the above is a cube drawn in 3D space with the new 3D drawing tools. You could then select all of the points and add a surface, the same way you would add a shape in 2D. Similar to the 2D case, the curvature of the surface would depend on the curvature of the points it passes through. In fact, the maths for generating surfaces would be very similar to generating a line, just with a few extra variables. You would be able to control the outline and fill color of the surface using the same styles as 2D shapes. Since the program already has to model the surface, you could also add simple cel shading to the final render.

Image

You could then add 2D shapes to the existing lines on the surface to add detail to the object.

Image

You could make the object look more geometric by decreasing the curvature of the points.

Image

I think this would be a much improved way of generating 2D style animation from 3D objects, as opposed to "cel-rendering" polygon objects. The objects would be much faster to create and you would have much more control over where the lines were drawn and what they looked like.

You could probably devise a way of controlling these 3d objects with the current bones system or a new 3D bone system. However, I think they would be the most useful for non-organic objects like vehicles, buildings, etc.
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern »

You have seen these two threads yes? :)

viewtopic.php?t=8618

viewtopic.php?t=8778


The second one has all the good stuff... they are listed in order... like a story of creation. ;)

What you described I think is exactly what Genete and I have tried to create. Still a work in progress.

What we've done should be fairly "simple" to incorporate into the application. I think that is where it should be. As far as controversial...

You won't believe this but before Genete and I started on this I was one of those "anti-3D in Anime Studio" fanatics!

This is just too fun... and doesn't involve actual "polygons". ;)

-vern
Rudiger
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:25 am

Post by Rudiger »

I'm certainly aware of the work that you and Genete have done with the 3D rig, but I'd be lying if I said I fully understood it. The fact that you guys have done this within a 2D framework is a great achievement. I'll watch Genete's video tutorial when I get the chance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, biut it seems like your approach is more suited to hard edged objects though. If you had an automatic surface generator, you could have smooth organic shapes with only a few points. I wouldn't even dream of trying to implement my proposal in the current version of Anime Studio with scripts though.

[quote=heyvern]This is just too fun... and doesn't involve actual "polygons". Wink [/quote]

Exactly! If we don't use "polygons" it's still 2D... right?

[/quote]
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern »

Actually I have thought the same thing you have about a "simple" vector based 3D feature instead of the "klunky" and limited obj import.

This would be a fantastic feature to AS.

The scripting process Genete has come up with is actually incredibly simple, and you don't need to know anything about scripting to pull it off. It is similar to "cad" programs where you draw a front and side view, the scripts do the rest.

I think I see what you mean about a "surface generator"... at the moment I don't think there is anything in AS to pull this off using scripting.

Genete has teased us with talk of "3D lighting"... I have no idea how he plans to pull that off but it sounds coool. I was actually thinking the same thing when playing around with a simple cube.

I guess to take the complexity out of this system will require more examples and thorough demos of how it's done.

I am proud that I at least was able to add in FOV to the mix. That was cool. I made a 3D chair! Yeehaa!

This is where I see the power of a feature like this. Not neccessarially over the top full blown 3D but using it to create objects and props very easily... speed up production. Create one object use it in 20 scenes from any angle.

Don't forget... this IS 3d... it isn't 2D. It is "real" 3D. Anything 3D projected to the screen is always a "cheat". What we're doing is the same as a 3D program but on a much smaller scale. We have arrays of points in 3D space that are "projected" to the screen... that is all 3D is anyway.

I really hope that since AS already has a very strong 3D component (obj import, 3D layers etc) that some kind of "vector" 3D as you suggest would be possible.

At the moment it is possible but it still has some limitations.

-vern
Genete
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Post by Genete »

What heyvern and I are developing is a tool to move points in a 3D space. If points have curves passing through, then a shape can be layered in. Also I have developed a technique to make a pseudo Z sort of the shapes taking account the average Z of its holding points. I think this is the maximum we can do with current Moho structure (shapes vs points). And yes it is hard edged objects. That's one of the biggest problems of our researching. To solve that I need to create a more dense mesh.

Regarding to the mention of heyvern about the lighting of the model I have some ideas about it. They are very basic because would require user interaction for every shape during the design of the model. Let's say that I have not found a way to automatically know what's the outer side of a shape (the one that's lighted or darked).

BTW the align X and Y tools that I have created are a secondary product of the research I was doing on that matter.

If you have some ideas regarding 3D stuff and want to share with us, please discuss them with us in the threads that heyvern mentioned before. You'll be welcome.
-G
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