After Effects Plugin

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spritelyjim
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After Effects Plugin

Post by spritelyjim » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:41 pm

This is more of a product request than a feature request:

I would like to have Anime Studio Pro ported to a plugin for After Effects. I think many people would buy it in that form. (I own Anime Studio, and would love a plugin version.) The plugin would be able to combine the power of ASP's IK tools with the power of the AE timeline/keyframe system. I wouldn't expect full integration, maybe a program withing a program that somehow utilizes the AE keyframes. It would really make up for the lack of IK support in AE and give people who are reluctant to buy and learn a whole new program an incentive to buy a plugin with these wonderful tools.
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:59 am

Well, I have to admit... I thought I had heard everything until now. How about a Corel Photo Paint plugin for Photoshop? ;)

Looking at your request it seems to me you have two primary complaints:
AE doesn't have good IK and...
You don't like the time line in AS.

Beyond those two features I don't see any other benefits for an "AS/AE plugin". You can easily import AS animations into AE through raster or SWF export format.

-vern
spritelyjim
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Post by spritelyjim » Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:38 am

You're right, those are the two complaints I mentioned. That's because as far as I'm concerned, IK is what makes Anime Studio a unique program, and so that's what it would add to AE. Think about it:

Anime Studio's drawing tools are nothing special.
Its timeline leaves much to be desired, by any standards.
Its sound abilities are... lacking.
2.5D is 2.5D. So what?

What is left? IK. Great IK. Now, think of the people who hate not having IK in After Effects. Many of them won't want to pay for a completely new program with a sub-par timeline, etc. But if you strip down the program to IK only and add that as a plugin using AE's already stellar tools for keyframing, timing, effects, etc., then you really have something, something you could charge at least $200 for and I think people would be very willing to buy it.

You jokingly suggested a Corel Paint plugin for Photoshop. Both of those are obviously competing programs, trying to grab at the same market share. Also, both programs are insanely complex. Anime studio is not. At least the IK part is a very specific component that could be separated and tweaked to be grafted into the AE toolset. It happens. There are 3D programs written to be grafted into AE to improve the workflow, so you can't just tell me that it is stupid to think the same thing can be done for a small (yet wonderful) program like ASP.

EDIT: By the way, I think this would only serve to greatly increase the ASP marketshare, and do absolutely nothing to reduce it. A lot of people (myself included) cannot afford a personal copy After Effects (though I use it heavily at work) and so would still be willing to buy the standalone program for home use. One reason I would be so excited by this is that I've been trying to convince my workplace and other designers at mograph.net to purchase ASP, but the lack of a decent timeline and better integration with After Effects, etc, has made them all reluctant to try it.
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Víctor Paredes
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Post by Víctor Paredes » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:15 am

i think you should to know well AS first, then start to write feature requests. You can supplement your AS animations with after effects, there is no problem with this. but they still being different software.
i work my pictures and text in corel photo paint before put them in AS, but i don't want advanced bitmap features for AS. Both make their work.



(in the first day of my first animator job (almost one year ago), i said i work with corel photo paint. all people there laughed me.
Corel? -said my boss- someone remember corel?, he asked.
Yes -said one- i used it when i was a child, still existing?
yes -i timidly said-, i use it because i prefer it instead photoshop's interface.
Well, you are in prehistory.)
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:44 am

If you strip away everything from AS but the "IK bones" there isn't much left. AE has bones now and I predict they will probably be improved as time goes by.

The other problem is that the reason the bones are so good in AS is how the vectors work. They are completely different from the curves/vectors used in Adobe products. Having the bones from AS in AE wouldn't be the same as AS. They wouldn't work the same. Plus it would be a totally different system then is currently in AE. They wouldn't "play together" if you follow me.

Just trying to point out that an AS plugin is an unrealistic expectation.

If you really want this feature in AE you could either learn programming and create a plugin for AE that reads and edits native anme file format or hire someone to write it. Or better still write a plugin that gives AE better IK. I don't see AS gaining anything from creating a plugin like this themselves.

I would prefer more focus on the application I bought, use and support, Anime Studio, not After Effects.

-vern
spritelyjim
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Post by spritelyjim » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:02 pm

heyvern, it may be an unrealistic expectation, but it is a realistic possibility. Obviously, if the idea I presented floats somebody's boat upstairs, then maybe it will happen. If it doesn't, then it won't. There is no harm in the asking. You seem to feel threatened that creating a second option would infringe upon the product you bought. I think with the right development team, that wouldn't be the case. Maybe a second product, only slightly related to the first, with its own development team, would be the answer. Of course E-Fronteer could hire more people. What's wrong with that?

Also, obviously, I am a practitioner. I use the software, I don't write it. I can't write it. That is not what I do for a living. This suggestion forum is exactly for that purpose. There are software creators watching here for ideas for programs like this. As far as I know, this is the only venue I have for seriously addressing this request. Otherwise, I might as well just daydream or hope for Adobe to get on the ball and create something useful as far as IK goes.

To correct you, the AE puppet tool is not IK, it uses no bones, and is mainly an advanced warp tool. There is no way it will ever really match the power of real bones, real IK, and the real functions of joining layers together to animate in any decent advanced way.
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Post by Danimal » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:44 pm

selgin wrote:yes -i timidly said-, i use it because i prefer it instead photoshop's interface.
Well, you are in prehistory.)
:lol: It never ceases to make me laugh how snobbish and elite people who use Photoshop think they are. The program is not only nothing special, it's 10x what it should cost. I'm not familiar with the Corel product, but Ulead's PhotoImpact does 2x what Photoshop does for 1/8 the price. BUt then you wouldn't get to stick your nose up and say "I use Photoshop," which impresses no one except total newcomers.

As for a plug-in to AE, it's a good idea, but it's just plain never going to happen. If anything, "It's All About The Money" Adobe would steal the technology, make it 1/10 as good, and then sell it for 50x the cost of ASP. That seems to be their way.
~Danimal
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heyvern
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Post by heyvern » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:34 am

Let my try this again...

A plugin that imported AS files or created them, or created better bones and IK whatever... a plugin like this in After Effects WOULD be the cat's pajamas. Seriously. If this could be done it would be great...

... for people who own and use After Effects. (I guess you would need another plugin for those who use FCP or any other compositing tool?). Personally I want a better timeline in Anime Studio... not... better IK in some other program.

AS has no "ownership" of "bones" or "IK". It wasn't invented by Mike when he created it. It is however quite unique for a 2D animation application. There are bunches of 3D apps with IK and bones that are even better than AS. Why not a plugin that incorporates Maya bones? Animation Master bones? Rumor has it the new version of Flash will have bones as well. Will those bones be incorporated into AE at some future date?

I don't feel threatened because I know this is not likely to happen anyway, unless as I mentioned a THIRD PARTY programmer not associated with Anime Studio were to create a plugin that gave AE similar bone features. This is much more likely and a better route to getting what you desire for AE.
To correct you, the AE puppet tool is not IK, it uses no bones, and is mainly an advanced warp tool.
What do you think bones are in Anime Studio? Bones in any animation program is simply "programming code" that simulates a hierarchical bone like widget to warp or distort an image or mesh. The things we take for granted, like "bones" or "3D", in any program are just... 1's and 0's strung together by a programmer that simulate something familiar in the real world.

I don't mean to get argumentative about this... I was just trying to explain why this idea seemed... slightly humorous to me.

It reminded me of that very old TV show I watched when I was young, "The Six Million Dollar Man". In one episode a scientist who built convincingly human looking robots wanted to kidnap Steve Austin and dissect him so he could build... Bionic Robots. It made no sense. How could a "Robot" be "Bionic"? And if it was, what made it better than the robot to begin with? Steve Austin kept getting his arse whipped by those fembots. ;)

You want better "IK" and better "bones" in the AE Robot? Why kidnap Bionic Anime Studio?

I admit that analogy is a stretch... but still. It makes some sense. ;)

Anyway, keep dreaming. Maybe post this idea on some AE plugin forums. You are more likely to find programmers there willing to take a shot at this plugin.

--------

p.s. Many studios like Greykid productions, use Anime Studio in a production pipeline that includes other compositing tools like AE or FCP etc. AS works very well in this type of environment. Not having a "plugin" for AE shouldn't be a hindrance in incorporating it into the work flow. It might actually be better since you can have animators animating in AS and compositors doing all the post work in something else. It is all layer based anyway.

-vern
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Jean_R
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Post by Jean_R » Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:00 am

Danimal wrote: It never ceases to make me laugh how snobbish and elite people who use Photoshop think they are. The program is not only nothing special, it's 10x what it should cost. I'm not familiar with the Corel product, but Ulead's PhotoImpact does 2x what Photoshop does for 1/8 the price. BUt then you wouldn't get to stick your nose up and say "I use Photoshop," which impresses no one except total newcomers.
Did you ever produce any professional stuff ? :shock:
Zamberro
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Post by Zamberro » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:35 pm

:lol: It never ceases to make me laugh how snobbish and elite people who use Photoshop think they are. The program is not only nothing special, it's 10x what it should cost.
It never ceases to amaze me how snobbish CHEAP people can be towards things they cant afford or are to cheap to pay for, complaining about quality products and their "slightly" higher prices.

What you failed to realize is: PS is probably the most versatile and user friendly piece of software on the planet. Hence... it is very special! Its probably the most widely used application in the world among creatives. Like ms word or excel is for writers. It sounds like you may be intimidated by PS, or jealous, and or never have really used it. So, naturally; you criticize it, the people who use it, and complain about the price...like a douche bag.

Every industry from video games, film, fashion, animation, advertising, etc.... you name it; has accepted it as a standard integral part of their production pipe line. Its a cross industry standard.... period! Thats pretty special!

In a job description: You wont see "must be proficient at such and such off brand etc that you mentioned". In most job descriptions (in creative industries) I see... "must have "adept" knowledge in "PS". Their is good reason for this.

I do agree, that their prices are a little high. But it is the best. And... If you shop around you can find good deals. You can pick up a student version of PS on ebay for the price of your off brand.

Also, if you buy their creative suits, it cuts the price of buying them individually by way more than half. I just bought Adobes' Production Suite Premium. It has after effects pro, premier CS3, illustrator CS3, PS CS3 plus all the bridge and integration tools. All for under 1500, about 1400. After Effects alone is priced around 800-1000, Premier is about the same. I'm getting all these wonderful applications for about $300 dollars a piece. What a bargain!

Your a cheap douche bag :)
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chucky
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Post by chucky » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:24 pm

Yeah or you can subscribe (borrow) an adobe suite for a mere $120.00 a month.
Or your first born too , I'm calling my first born Image ready.
:wink:
Sequential offender.
my latest animations
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