Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby chucky » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:39 pm

Cheers guys,
Yep a combination of techniques on those hands. I'm really loving nested interpolation. So great to have it up the sleeve.
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby MickSee » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:38 am

Any news guys? It seems like everyday I'm waking up hoping today would be the day SM releases Moho 13. And is there any new features that you guys are looking forward for?
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby formxshape » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:49 pm

Job going on Linkedin at Smith for a graphic engineer to work on Moho:

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/921688046/

If I knew how to code I'd love to do that job.

On my to do list:

Upgrade the brush function - currently you're basically applying a scaled png repeated along a stroke, it looks repeated and while good, is a bit limiting. How about more abilities to fine tune it - scatter, random scatter, random scale of brush along the path, ability to 'fade out in a threshold way' the tips of the brush strokes (so it looks natural - currently you can do this by creating a range of brushes, adding a few points to a path, and using a different style along sections of the path). Ability to 'reload' brushes without having to quit and restart the software. Also if you make a set of pngs for a brush, it appears in mono's brush window - then you make some adjustments to how it's repeated, rotated, save that as a Moho brush preset. Then you get two incidences of the brush in the brush preset window, all a bit messy, confusing. Photoshop solves this with brush presets being all the settings, brush 'tips' being the pngs used. Something like that would be good. Also get rid of all the awful tacky brushes in there and get a pro set made.

Some more 'Effects' that you can apply in the style section, more suited to creating textured effects, a dissolve like grainy noise would be great. Instead of two effects, how about a 'node' based system, that would be really powerful and creative. Imagine you could chain things such as 'inner shdaow' 'blur' 'threshold' 'grain' 'multiply' etc onto the original a fill. Some sort of 'choke' feature to refine the path. Ability to redraw the 'random' arrangement of brushes along the path when the vector 'boiling' thing shifts things.

Ability to export a swf, so we can then use it in AE(since that's now a thing). Or a Plugin for AE that works like their cinema4d lite plugin, so we can skip rendering and bring out Moho work straight into AE, have it rendered via a plugin there (this would see sales go up massively as AE professionals are currently struggling with rigging plugins etc and put off using Moho as it looks amateur)

The easing functions are ok, but not as powerful as AE. The motion graph feature is ok, but if you're adjusting easing with keyframes about 4 frames apart it's hard to zoom in and get something accurate. I like how in AE you can dial in custom amounts such as 30%/60% for ease -in/ease-out on a keyframe. It'd be nice to see more ease types offered, or better if I choose 'ease in' for example a little 'strength' slider to adjust how strongly it eases in. + ability to store that as a preset.

Finally I'd hire some pro motion designers to create some modern, cool looking animations to entice more AE users over to Moho. Currently a lot of moho's marketing, examples, tutorial files etc - all look really really dorky and amateur. It almost put me off picking up Moho. Stuff like this would get pro's more interested:

https://dribbble.com/shots/4894722-Rig-Man

Examples like that, look modern, look commercially viable, and for the pro community we can see how much easier it would be to use Moho vs AE for that sort of thing. More needs to be made of that - it's not widely know. Sales could be up 1000% if more song and dance was made of it.
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby chucky » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:21 pm

Well said.
Maybe you should try posting this where devs might see, an email or message on twitter, facebook or something?
This is stuff they have definitely heard before, but every iteration is effective.
The hard thing is convincing the exects deep inside Smith Micro, not the Moho developers as these kinds of advances and improvements take investment.
Including developing example animation and tutorials that aren't rushed out and is developed with a properly considered and coordinated strategy.
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby mrc » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:57 pm

formxshape wrote:... animation to entice more AE users over to Moho.


Among my mates at the office it is the lack of an easy Illustrator-Moho-workflow that makes the move to Moho difficult. If Moho 13 had only one new feature, I wish it was this.

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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby formxshape » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:20 am

Indeed the illustrator > correct SVG export settings > import to Moho = odd scale. Is not ideal. At least a smooth SVG import process would be nice. I set my AI art board to 1920x1080, export SVG, import to Moho and then have to rescale it (I find putting a BG rectangle at full Artboard size works as guide).

However, with the Magnet tool in Moho, I just go straight into Moho for illustrating, as it's so much easier than Illustrator's pen tools. It works well for my own projects, but in a commercial setting, where assets are re used elsewhere, some ability to export to Illustrator would be lovely, and keep all the brush effects. I know I can export SVG's but...

Another feature I'd love to see in Moho 13 - a global setting for the layers 'Vector's' > 'Noise Settings'. It'd be nice to be able to adjust that globally, or at least on a parent folder to affect all sub layers. It gets tiring to have to go through selecting all layers and then adjusting the settings. Those Vector Noise settings are great for creating a 'frame by frame' look on vector artwork. Some additional features would be nice - currently the 'distortion is uniform across the screen/strokes, some ability to perhaps use a procedural pattern to set a different 'boil' strength across the stroke/areas of the screen would be good to get a more natural look. The ability to save a setting as a preset, and apply it quickly to other layers -t hat could solve it. Then you only need to adjust the preset for all layers to have updated settings noise settings.
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby formxshape » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:45 pm

Guidelines - how about rulers on the side of the frame + ability to create guidelines. Sometimes you just want to pull out a guideline and align things up.
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby Greenlaw » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:05 pm

formxshape wrote:Guidelines - how about rulers on the side of the frame + ability to create guidelines. Sometimes you just want to pull out a guideline and align things up.

Yeah, this and other ruler/guide options is something I've asked for for ages. I also want a global grid. Currently, each layer has it's own unique grid, which creates a mess when using it to align stuff between layers and some of the layers have been scaled.

For now, I have to import or create my guides as visual overlays. This works but obviously it's not ideal since there is no 'snapping' available with these guides.
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby JaMike » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:50 pm

Hey Smith Micro!

If you were waiting for Harmony 16 to be released before you released Moho 13, don't worry! It's out and should really be called Harmony 15.5 - its best new feature is ripped off from TV Paint, its second best is from Flash and the third best was in the last version, they just made it more visible. It's a crushing disappointment and a slap in the face to the subscribers. Toon Boom have gone full Adobe. :roll:

So go right ahead and release Moho 13! You've got an open goal! :D
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby slowtiger » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:57 pm

Oh, what did they rip from TVP?
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby chucky » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:55 am


Well, this looks straight from the Moho catalogue.
Runs without a script now.
It has corrective positions so that's something smart bones actually could really use.
I stopped buying Toon Boom though, even the storyboard software ( I use a lot for work), I actually traded in after updating last year for its lack of improvements for the price they were asking.
Technically I traded in my support which gives free upgrades, the loophole being NOT a version upgrade. So they moved to 16 without fixing major crash bugs in 15.
I'd rather suffer without the feature than submit to their absurd upgrade pricing.
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby Designspaceman » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:59 pm

Hey Everybody,
I have both, Moho 12 and Harmony Premium. I decided to give Harmony another chance (and renewed the support contract). Well, seems to be money for (almost) nothing. The most obvious reason for staying with Toon Boom is the very good drawing engine. For traditional frame by frame animation it is one of the best I know. For cut out, it is much too complicated (using drawings in pegs, having this crap kinematic output and so on). The whole process is designed to have best results in a studio environment with lots of animators to work on a project. I asked the guys from Toon Boom at least to introduce target bones. And yes, it didn't happen. Freelancers are not so important to Toon Boom. I don't think I will do any further payment to Toon Boom and stay with V16. The evolution of the software is way to slow for paying constantly.
Let's come back to Moho. For the way of working in Moho the drawing engine is not that important (although I would be happy the do more with drawing than with constructing). There are some things in Moho that could be improved. But all in all it is still a good piece of software and I enjoy working with Moho.
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby Greenlaw » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:21 pm

Where I work, we use Moho, Harmony, Animate CC, and After Effects for 2D character animation. Depending on the show and the style of animation called for, we might use any one or a combination of these programs.

For puppet-style rigs and animation, Moho is the one to beat. No other program has a bone IK system and Smart Actions system that's as easy to use. For recent examples of our Moho puppet-style animation, check out the 2D segments in our Boss Baby show on Netflix.

Harmony can be frustrating and overly complicated for 'puppets' because it doesn't support morphing shapes or IK with bone targets the way Moho does. I can more or less say the same for Animate and After Effects. During The Croods production, we used AfterEffects with DuIK, then switched to Harmony, and finally settled on Moho for the cave painting animations. But at one point, I used all three programs on a sequence because I had to animate characters that were only set up for certain programs. (Ah, memories...) :D

On the other hand, Moho's freehand drawing tools for FBF is buggy, so if you need FBF, you should have a second animation program that specializes in that. Personally, I like TVPaint for FBF, but any of the other programs mentioned will do fine. For a good free FBF/paint option, look at Krita. (There's also OpenToonz but I haven't tried it yet.)

Every program is different, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Puppet-style is the clearly Moho's super power, and FBF is Harmony's.

I understand the Moho devs have been busy improving drawing for the next major release, so keeping my fingers crossed. :D
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby Plecithince » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:39 am

flop3545 wrote:I'm thinking about upgrading to Moho 12, however it feels like a while since it was released which makes me wonder if v13 is due anytime soon. Has anyone heard anything at all to suggest that Moho 13 is coming any time soon? I wouldn't want to purchase v12 if v13 is just around the corner.


Pretty sure its in the works. 12 is due for an upgrade
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Postby Plecithince » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:41 am

JaMike wrote:Hey Smith Micro!

If you were waiting for Harmony 16 to be released before you released Moho 13, don't worry! It's out and should really be called Harmony 15.5 - its best new feature is ripped off from TV Paint, its second best is from Flash and the third best was in the last version, they just made it more visible. It's a crushing disappointment and a slap in the face to the subscribers. Toon Boom have gone full Adobe. :roll:

So go right ahead and release Moho 13! You've got an open goal! :D

they sure do! :D
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