Chaotic

General Moho topics.

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banjar
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Post by banjar »

dsaenz825 wrote:Whoa, lets not argue about advice now.
I agree with Slowtiger on this one though, any program will suffice. ....And don't be offended with Slowtigers comment, he is just a direct strait to the point type of person. If you need a constructive comment he's the one. Plus, foundations are necessary for the building of anything.
Offended? Not at all! Arguing? Not me! But I am guilty of trying to squeeze more wisdom from an expert like squeezing water from a sponge. Slowtiger is like SpongeBob Squarepants ... only smarter, full of knowledge and wisdom instead of full of sea water.

I guess I got a bit carried away with the fun of poking a slowtiger on the nose. Whoops, that sounds kind of scary and dangerous. Not a good idea, Daffy Duck.
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slowtiger
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Post by slowtiger »

*blushes*
aaw, shucks!
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

Hello all
kphgraphics wrote:So can Toonboom Digital Pro achieve all the tricks done in these productions alone?
Sorry, was a little slow on that one, sort of missed it.

Yeah, TB Digital Pro has drawing, rigging, rendering, fx and composition all build in, also cost 3k and has several thousand pages of manual and a huge learning curve compared to AS.

AS comes so close to what it can do that it would be quite useless to go that way. Not counting the headaches you would spare yourself using AS instead.

Gilles
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kphgraphics
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Post by kphgraphics »

rudetiger wrote:
can Toonboom Digital Pro achieve all the tricks done in these productions alone?
Who cares? Any professional production will use as much different software as it needs to get the job done. It's only the amateur who might be only able to afford one program who asks this question.
Well duh, thanks for that little bit of nothing.
GCharb wrote:Hello all
kphgraphics wrote:So can Toonboom Digital Pro achieve all the tricks done in these productions alone?
Sorry, was a little slow on that one, sort of missed it.

Yeah, TB Digital Pro has drawing, rigging, rendering, fx and composition all build in, also cost 3k and has several thousand pages of manual and a huge learning curve compared to AS.

AS comes so close to what it can do that it would be quite useless to go that way. Not counting the headaches you would spare yourself using AS instead.

Gilles
Thanks for that answer, reason i asked is because you mentioned all the programs they used to make that animation, then you stated AS alone could not. So AS with other programs could achieve that same look?
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

Hello again
So AS with other programs could achieve that same look?
I do not think, or at least I havnt seen anyone doing a full TV series with AS but I am certain that AS could pull it off as far as building and animating goes, would be a bit tedious since AS is not build for such a production.

Here is a url to a cutout workflow tutorial for Toonboom Digital Pro, the software used for Chaotic. There is nothing there that cannot be done in AS except for a few tricks like tweening.

Here is the blog of the maker of Digata Defenders, a cutout style animation TV series, the creator shares alot of tips and tricks from making a pitch to a few other goodies on starting a TV series.

Stay away from the software though, it is 3K and is a bitch to learn, but most of the workflow and principles proposed in the document still holds for AS.

AS alone could not pull the whole production, you would also need a compostion software, like AFX.
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

Hello again
So AS with other programs could achieve that same look?
I do not think, or at least I havnt seen anyone doing a full TV series with AS but I am certain that AS could pull it off as far as building and animating goes, would be a bit tedious since AS is not build for such a production.

Here is a url to a cutout workflow tutorial for Toonboom Digital Pro, the software used for Chaotic. There is nothing there that cannot be done in AS except for a few tricks like tweening.

Stay away from the software though, it is 3K and is a bitch to learn, but most of the workflow and principles proposed in the document still holds for AS.

Here is the blog of the maker of Digata Defenders, a cutout style animation TV series, the creator shares alot of tips and tricks from making a pitch to a few other goodies on starting a TV series.

AS alone could not pull the whole production, you would also need a compostion software, like AFX.

Gilles
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Mikdog
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Post by Mikdog »

Wel,, I've animated over 15 x 5 minute TV episodes using AS. Not the best animation, mind you, but it was a series worth. As far as I know the series went on to reach over 100 episodes and one of the other guys animating the episodes was also using AS. For local TV though, and I'm pretty sure there have been other series animated using AS for local consumption...
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

Mikdog wrote:I've animated over 15 x 5 minute TV episodes using AS
That's way cool but what I ment by full TV series was 20 minutes episodes. What was the name of the series, any places we could see it, youtube maybe?

Would also love to see other such projects made with AS.

This does not change what I said about AS not being made for such a production, not because it is not a capable animation software but mostly because it is not organized for it.

Gilles
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slowtiger
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Post by slowtiger »

what I said about AS not being made for such a production, not because it is not a capable animation software but mostly because it is not organized for it.
Have you ever worked in a classical animation studio, with pen and paper and xeroxed cels and real paint and a rostrum camera? There was no software to organize things, and still we were able to crank out series as well as feature length animation. Instead we had a studio production manager, and a really good one. Whatever I learned about organizing workflows I learned from him, especially that no software ever could possibly replace him.

There is software which helps you in organizing things, but no software will help you if you aren't organized yourself. Even the most powerful project management tool is useless if the input isn't there, or faulty. Even the best asset management tool or database doesn't help you to find things if you don't have the discipline to save stuff under the correct name in the correct place yourself.

I used AS for series and found it good enough, however, it wasn't the only tool in my or the studio's workflow. If you use AS professionally, you will still need some Photoshop, some sound editor, some video editor, maybe even a compositing tool. Does that make AS worthless? I don't think so. I think it's the best return of investment I ever had with a software.

Unlike some bigger players in the field AS doesn't even claim to organize a whole studio workflow, so I don't see any sense in accusing it for not doing what it wasn't designed to do.
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

Hello Tiger

Never said AS was worthless, quite the opposite.

I first started doing animation with an 8 mm camera I sorta rigged to do frame by frame, 14 years old at the time, 45 now. I did work the old fashion way then the studio I worked at moved to Animo.

AS is squarly aimed at a one person or small studios, does this make it less valuable, or crappy software, of course not.

What I ment was that it is not organized for a full TV series workflow, where you need to produce 22-26 X 20 minutes of TV grade animation a year with very specialized studio compartments and a full blown team of talents, like Nelvana or Nickelodeon studios. Where the software works over a network and the file system are build to accomodate such workflow. Only two softwares I know that does allow that sort of workflow are Animo and TB Harmony, which cost 15k and up.

Let's not fight over software shall we!

Gilles
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realsnake
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Post by realsnake »

Image

Sorry couldn't resist :!:
slice11217
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Post by slice11217 »

This thread is still about Chaotic, right? Just checking.

Anyway, I recently had an e-conversation with a friend of mine who works on Chaotic. He's doing storyboards for the second season (maybe the third?). He said that the first season's animation was entirely done in Flash and literally brought the software to its knees. The second season was/is being done overseas and he didn't really know what they're using, but that it probably wasn't too big of a divergence from the first season.

That's just what I know about it.
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

Hello again

While Chaotic Entertainment used mostly Flash on their Chaotic series, they also gave most of the animation to outside studios, was reported that Toon Boom was used for most of it.

I live and work in Montreal, home of Toon Boom, we get updates and show infos all the time.

Flash on the other hand was used on many tv series, like Yin Yang Yo, Atomic Betty and about 10 other series between 2003 and 2008.

Around 10 movies released for theater used Flash.

Among those Romeo and Juliet: Sealed with a kiss, by Phil Nibbelink, a former Disney animator, who used Flash 4 in combination with Moho. Took him 4 1/2 years to make the 112000 frames of the movie.

Gilles
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