Anime Studio's inability to animate a bouncing ball properly

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heiseman
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Anime Studio's inability to animate a bouncing ball properly

Post by heiseman »

Ever since the Moho days, I have been unable to properly animate a bouncing ball. Even with Ease in/out turned on, it still always smooths around the keyframes creating unrealistic movement. Here is an animation test so you can see what I mean:

http://www.lukeheise.com/temp/bounceball.mp4

The right ball is what it should look like, and the left ball is how anime studio pro handles the animation.

There have been numorous threads on this issue in the past:
viewtopic.php?t=2975&start=0
viewtopic.php?t=3100
viewtopic.php?t=691&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
viewtopic.php?t=2975&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

... But the problem still exists. I know there are work arounds with scripts and creating additional keyframes, but this really is not ideal for workflow. It should be built into the software like almost every other animation software includes. I was hoping for version 7 to finally fix the problem, but it looks like it hasn't. The new physics engine does not count. We need this level of control for keyframes! Do the developers visit this forum? Is there any way I can contact them with feature requests? Maybe they have no idea or have completely forgot about the issue. I'd like to remind them so that there is hopefully a chance that a future version will include this functionality. It is great software, but the lack of proper easing in/out is a huge downfall, especially considering it is professional animation software. I am hoping someone out there who has tried version 7 can tell me that it is all fixed now, but from what I have heard it has not.
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Squeakydave
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Post by Squeakydave »

Sadly, from what I glean V7 doesn't address these issues. I usually end up keying every frame especially on walks (Where the bone locking doesn't work).
This is one of the reasons I am hesitating to upgrade. I sent V6 back because the Gradient fill seemed to be broken (and seemed to break my old projects) and the new toys in that version for the most part wouldn't be of any use for my work flow.

Multi core rendering and motion curves would help me a bit but without a demo and with my V6 experience in mind I am hesitant.
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

True, motion graph needs tangent handles to tweak thing, nothing on that in 7.

As for multi core rendering, it works perfect, it renders a frame on each core, so it does not help on one image renders.

I have many grips with 7, but some of the new features make it worth the upgrade in my humble opinion.

G
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Squeakydave
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Post by Squeakydave »

As a professional Animator My biggest gripe with AS Pro (any version)is the word 'Pro' though to be fair that is not just an issue with Anime Studio
Marketing pah!
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heiseman
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Post by heiseman »

Yeah, hard to call this professional software when you can't even animate a bouncing ball realistically. They really need to fix this easing in/out issue!
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GCharb
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Post by GCharb »

heiseman wrote:Yeah, hard to call this professional software when you can't even animate a bouncing ball realistically. They really need to fix this easing in/out issue!
My opinion is that they should stick to 2D, make the available tools better and add the tools needed for 2D animators, not 3D toys.

Enough on my part, will think it over this weekend, then I will need to make a decision as to my future with ASP, it has come to that for me since I am not certain where this software is going from now on.

This said, for those enjoying the new tools, they are great for what they are ment to do, especially considering that there is only one programmer, unless that changed as well, if not, chapeau to Mike, he made a huge amount of work in a really short amount of time!

I wonder if he ever sleep! :)

G
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Squeakydave
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Post by Squeakydave »

Same for me really. AS6 pro really made me think that it was aimed at the hobbiest and I started looking at TB Animate and recently CelAction which is really geared to the professional and series market (And pretty much the standard in the UK 2d series animation scene)

That said, I had a recent commission for a 2min training video and I opted for AS 5.6 due to the tight schedule (And unfamiliarity with the other softs).
I guess there will always be a place in my toolbox for AS.
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PARKER
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Post by PARKER »

I prefer to do Ease in/out and other effectcs manually by adding key frames, this gives you more control on the animation and the final result will be the best, try it.
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AmigaMan
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Post by AmigaMan »

Heiseman - I agree, AS should have Ease In / Out working correctly by now but to say you can't animate a bouncing ball correctly is not right. I use 3d software every day and I would never rely on the graph editor for a bouncing ball, or anything else. It almost always has to have keyframes added and tweaked by hand in order for it to look correct in animation. In stop-motion we didn't have the luxury of graph curves and had to do everything by eye and it worked out just fine :)

Squeakydave - CelAction is great but, animation wise, there is nothing in CelAction you can't do in Anime Studio as far as I remember. In fact you are limited to cut-out style and (unless it's changed) you can't animate the layer order and no nice smooth bending joints. If you just want to do basic cut-out animation it's ideal but you can do that very well in AS surely?
Last edited by AmigaMan on Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
heiseman
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Post by heiseman »

That is exactly the problem. With Anime Studio Pro, you need to create all these extra keyframes which is far from ideal, but unfortunately the only workaround. The result is a messy timeline which is difficult to edit and navigate. Key frames should only be required for 'KEY' frames, not for everything in between. That is exactly what velocity curves are for. It is a real shame that such an important feature is still missing from an almost great piece of software.

Any suggestions on who I should contact regarding this issue? I know that posting here will only have limited exposure. I'd like to make this issue known to the developers so they can fix it in a future update.
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PARKER
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Post by PARKER »

heiseman wrote:Any suggestions on who I should contact regarding this issue? I know that posting here will only have limited exposure. I'd like to make this issue known to the developers so they can fix it in a future update.

Post your idea in: Feature Requests
heiseman
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Post by heiseman »

AmigaMan - The only way to animate a bouncing ball correctly in Anime Studio Pro is by inserting a bunch of extra keyframes. It shouldn't be this way considering it is 'professional' software. Simple movements, should require only few keyframes and a non-cluttered timeline.

I am quite happy to use graph editors (found in other software) for things like a bouncing ball animation or anything else simple. The results are usually pretty good in my opinion, but if you think otherwise, that's fine.

Anyway, I'm glad you agree that AS should have Ease In/Out working properly by now. I believe most animators would agree. Please Smith Micro/Lost Marble, fix it in the next update!
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PARKER
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Post by PARKER »

heiseman wrote:AmigaMan - The only way to animate a bouncing ball correctly in Anime Studio Pro is by inserting a bunch of extra keyframes. It shouldn't be this way considering it is 'professional' software. Simple movements, should require only few keyframes and a non-cluttered timeline.

I am quite happy to use graph editors (found in other software) for things like a bouncing ball animation or anything else simple. The results are usually pretty good in my opinion, but if you think otherwise, that's fine.

I agree with you also, improving Ease In/Out would make AS a better software but i disagree when you say that a bunch of keyframes are nesessary to do this animation effect, you dont need to add a lot of key frames to do that.

The fact that AS has this little problem doesnt mean its not a professional software for animation, ask to any professional animator and they will tell you that they would prefer to do the inbetween frames themselves.
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Post by Genete »

Synfig, 3 interpolations:
Image
Image
Image
Image

Notice that you can change the Tension, Continuity, Bias and Temporal Tension to achieve different effects. See TCB.
-G
heiseman
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Post by heiseman »

I just think it is a feature that should be included considering it is professional software. Name one other professional animation software which doesn't include proper ease in/out or velocity curves.

Anyway, we both agree that improved ease in/out would make Anime Studio Pro a better piece of software. Some will benefit from it more than others. I will post this in the feature request forum and hopefully get a response. I'm not sure whether the developers check that forum out any more. Hopefully they do.

Synfig looks interesting. I'm also looking into Toon Boom Animate Pro 2 at the moment. It's expensive, but I may have to go down that road if Anime Studio Pro isn't patched soon with a fix for this.
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