Brand new to AS and animation, but with questions

moe2d · Post by **moe2d** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:48 pm

First I'd like to say hello to eveyone, and tell you guys that I think this is a wonderful forum. I've been checking this place out for the last week or so, and I think the info here is invaluable. I've only had AS for two weeks now, and I've got two questions..

First: is there a way to add a color palette context window to the layers tabs?
explanation* as I add more layers to my character (my first one actually), it's taking longer and longer to find the layers that I would like to edit, and as my hierarchy grows, I can only see it getting worse.I was wondering if there was a way to color code your layers so that related objects (not necessarily in the same group) so that they are easier to find and edit.
ex. left arm layer color yellow
right arm layer color yellow
I know that's a bad example, as which ever arm is in the back will most likely be located at the bottom of your hierarchy, but hopefully it's pretty clear what I'm getting at.. if this has been answered already, I sincerely apologize for asking it again, and I'd REALLY appreciate a link to that thread! Since this post has gotten to be longer then I intended, I will save my other questions for another time...
BTW..you guys rock

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:24 pm

hey moe - welcome.

Actually, that's a pretty good idea - but unfortunately it's not possible (maybe scriptable?)

one thing I might suggest is not using so many layers - you could potentially have your entire character in a single layer - and just seperate a few things if need be to make your life easier... but I would look into getting your head around stack order so you don't feel you have to seperate things into layers - and it also opens possibilities as objects can share common points and edges while being completely seperated in stack order.

There's a tut in my footer

reneuend · Post by **reneuend** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:29 pm

Hey Moe!

I'm with you. I LOVE layers. I layer everything!! I thought maybe I could use the group option to group my layers but I just ended up with a mess. I'm still wondering the best way to store pallete information. Sadly, I've used pen and paper before to track what object uses what color. I just write the html value. if you find a good way to do it, please post!

moe2d · Post by **moe2d** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:56 pm

Thank you sooo much funksmaname, you've just taught me a new (and much better) way to make mouth shapes.
Now may question about shape ordering is this. Is there a way to create depth using shape ordering like you can when using layers. I've just created my first mouth using your technique, and it turned out great, but now i'm trying it out on making a simple scene, and I don't see a z axis adjustment option for shape stack ordering although I could be completely looking over it. Great tutorial by the way, you should do more, unlike a lot of the tutorials on youtube, your voice is actually pleasant to listen too.. also thank you for responding so quickly, I definitely appreciate it.

@ reneuend
Yeah, I have to say that layers have been my best friend in AS so far, and I love what you can do with them. I also tried grouping all of my related objects together, but what I end up with were objects in groups that seemed logical at the time, but ended up a huge semi-functional mess of a rig.. Grouping just isn't always a very good option, because it changes the hierarchy, but maybe I'm just not understanding the underlying concept..

moe2d · Post by **moe2d** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:10 pm

ok after playing around with shape stack ordering, I've actually been able to get rid of quite a few layers which helps, but I'm still left with a TON of layers that are becoming increasingly harder to manage. Since color coding isn't possible, is there any way at all to link or associate objects that are typically edited together, but are in different places in your layer heirarchy?
I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but it would make the process like a thousand times easier for me. Especially when having to scroll seemingly endlessly to find the ONE layer you want to edit. It gets even harder if you've been staring a computer monitor for multiple hours..lol
funksmaname, do you have anymore tutorials?

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:15 pm

Nah, Z space only works on layers - but why would you want to seperate parts of the same character in Z space? just order them how you need? My technique has it's flaws - it really depends what you're trying to do - other things to look into is Selgins 'New head turn' technique which uses masking (can be a little confusing for beginners though) - really depends what you're trying to do.

reneuend - it seems to me you misunderstood the request (or I did?

) but you should use styles for storing colour and line info - you can name styles after your objects so it's easy to track, beats pen, paper and RGB values

p.s. thanks about the tutorial - although everyone hates their own voice

moe2d · Post by **moe2d** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:49 pm

ok I'm going to try my best to explain the effect that I'm trying to get and maybe you can even tell me a better way to go about doing it. My first character is designed with a front profile, but he has a tail that I want to be visible and have depth. I'm am using layers to create the tail and rotating each small piece of it on the xy axis as well as making minor adjustments to the scale and the y axis. I'm also making small changes in z space for each layer to add depth, so that the tail looks like it's going back into z space behind the character. The idea is to have the tail show depth behind the character as it curves around to the left, and eventually be able to place an object or character in between those layer (which the visibility would would probably need to be turned off on those layers) to get sort of a wrap around effect of the tail in z space. I might have bitten off more then i can chew for my first AS project, but I think It could work. the buzillion layers I've already got for my character isn't making it any easier to work with. If the camera pans left or right I want the back end of the tail to pan slower then the characters body in the foreground while still looking like it's actually connected to the character.. Does that make any sense?

by the way, the tail thing doesn't really have anything to do with my first question, I was just telling you why I was wondering if you could make z axis adjustments in shape ordering, it seemed like if that was possible, it might make this effect easier..

moe2d · Post by **moe2d** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:17 pm

I'm thinking I'm going to hold off on the tail until I get more versed in AS, cause it is kicking my butt right now.. time to start a simpler project!

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:27 pm

i tried to split character parts in z space before with little success... I don't think this is a common workflow. The only successful example of this I saw in the included files on a previous version of AS (maybe 5.6?) where there were some vegetables - can't remember who made it

Anyhow, i think leave Z space for now - it's another dimension of complication (i rarely, if ever, use Z space in AS) - put the tail on like any other limb, whether on it's own layer or not, and when you make a camera movement, move it with bone or point motion to create the effect you want.

This is 2D animation afterall

don't get hung up on cutting corners, put in the hard work and you will be rewarded.

moe2d · Post by **moe2d** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:04 am

I'm definitely going to take your advice, it just really irks me to give up on something that I think could work..Kinda feel defeated, but I'm going to get a bit more experience with AS, and maybe even give it another try in the future.. btw..are fazek's tools ASP7 compatible? if not I can get ASP6 no prob as i've seen it like everywhere for only $40, probably should have started there in the first place instead of springing for 7..Anyway, thanks for all of the advice, you're really a big help.

moe2d · Post by **moe2d** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:50 pm

btw, is there a recommended books or reference section on this forum..I'm pretty much looking for any reference material I can find to expand my background knowledge, whether it be animation,comics or drawing in general. I just bought scott mccloud's making comics on ebay based on your recommendation, I also bought understanding comics. Thanks a lot funksmaname

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:42 pm

Hey moe,

The most reccomended book for animation is The Animator's Survival Kit by Richard Williams. There are lots more - i'll wait for our librarian, also known as Slowtiger, to reccomend some more

Fazeks tools are compatible with AS7.

Trying to do something someone else can't tell you how is how new techniques are discovered so don't give up! then you can teach us all something

but if you are frustrated, take a break... come back to it after you've cleared your head doing something else.

Good luck!