Waiting to upgrade? Tell me why!

General Moho topics.

Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger

Patmals
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:19 am
Location: Nagoya-shi, Japan

Post by Patmals »

digitalartguru wrote:
Rudiger wrote:be more expensive and therefore less attractive for beginners. There could also be a lot of features that are really only useful for collaborative work in a studio and not by a single-user.

I personally think there is room for 3 versions. One for beginner users, one for intermediate users, and one for advanced users.
@Rudiger
@Patmals

So you really want SM to invest their programming and time resources on having to re-create another version? Wouldn't you rather them spend that precious time on making these two versions SOLID and BUG FREE? I really think this is why we still have issues that haven't been resolved from version to version. We need the Smith Micro programmers to focus on these issues and solve them once and for all to make each new version a real upgrade and better.

As an ex computer programmer myself, I can tell you that it takes a lot of time and effort to put together software and if I have too many projects going at once, they will all suffer and the product will be crappy.

Something to think about!

I say, let make the current versions the best they can be without complicating things any further.
I didnt say that they SHOULD make another version.
I was referring to NAMESAKE. It was just my 2 cents.
Anyway, I agree with your comment but I felt cheated with the new version and have requested a refund. Maybe if you had been using the software as long as many of the current users has, you may feel the same, too.

Just a question, when did you first use ASP?
Last edited by Patmals on Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
NeedyN00b
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:24 pm
Contact:

Post by NeedyN00b »

It would speed up workflow to have some way to edit the timeline across all layers or a selection of layers. I would like to be able to select multiple layers and a range of the timeline and either batch delete keyframes for those layers in that timeline range or nudge left or nudge right a specified number of keyframes (it could be the length of the selection, like inserting rows in Excel).

When characters pause too long before acting, it's tedious to go in layer-by-layer to tighten up the acting. It's similarly tedious if I need a new line of dialog and all of the action needs to be pushed back to allow room for the new line.

Great software, just trying to give suggestions to make it better. I have a physical copy of Pro 8 on the way!
Tori
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:25 pm
Location: Watsonville, CA
Contact:

Post by Tori »

barryem wrote:
Tori wrote:I'm here to advocate for you, but I'm also here to communicate for the awesome teams inside too - who really do care. I think that's part of it too - the motivations of the people behind this product are really great...and I agree and think we can do a better job of showing you that we're moving in the right direction. I've found over the years with the Poser community that information is power, and sometimes you have to ask what the perception is to help shift it. So that's why I wanted to pop in and see what the conversation was before I tried to find a message to share.
I'd like to suggest something you might do to soothe some feelings here. You've read the complaints and you've said you'll pass them on and you've said that you can't discuss future plans or features, all of which is understandable, at least to me.

But could you discuss some of the complaints of the past? Could you go through some of the things people complained about in previous versions that didn't get changed or added in later versions or the latest version and say something about those that were discussed and rejected? And maybe talk a little about why the developers chose to add certain features?

I realize there will be much you can't say but what about those things you can tell us? Not secret stuff. Just the things you are able to discuss.

It's one thing for you to come forward and ask what we're thinking and that probably is a good marketing technique and may very well also be because you do care, as you say. But it's a lot more important to your users and customers, I think, to have some kind of idea about the thinking over there.

Probably if you do say why you rejected some features you'll get a bit of heated disagreement but I think you might also build a bit of trust.

Barry
Hi Barry!

I'm definitely not the one to have that conversation with, I wasn't involved in those discussions or decisions. Unfortunately as well, we've recently lost Sarina who was truly the one to have those conversations with. We're getting our awesome PM up to speed, and he's VERY excited to start conversations with you, but it may be a few weeks before he's in the trenches with you guys. I know that at some point, everyone starts to have a list of their own personal wants and wishes, and as I've seen with the Poser development, that can create quite a demand on the developers and decisions do have to be made. Software developers serve many masters - which is why I said, I understand when some people skip a version or two until the thing they've been waiting for can be scheduled on the list. I hope that my reaching out here is just the start of the dialogue and we can continue communicating well into the future. I don't have these answers you're looking for now, but I'm hoping over the next few months, they bubble to the surface.

Thanks for your patience!
Tori
User avatar
GCharb
Posts: 2202
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:31 am
Location: Saint-Donat, Quebec, Canada
Contact:

Post by GCharb »

Hello all!

First of, hello Tori, nice to meet you, kind of. Thanks for your interest in the community and may I had that you look absolutely lovely on that 2008 video interview! ;)

I am a 30 years experienced 2d animator even though I spent most of the last 20 years doing 3D work.

I do not plan on upgrading at this time and for several reasons.

What I need from the software I use is for those to make my life easier, to allow me to create a workflow that suits me, that allows me to save as much time as possible and to allow me to crank out as much work as possible.

I do not feel, from what I see, that ASP8 is that software and I feel that way since 7.

True that pretty much everyone has his or her own views on what a software should be, but if you look around at the biggest names in the GFX industry, you will see a few common traits, one being that interfaces are generally very customizable, that they are, for the most part, bug free and that they usually play well with other software.

What I like, well, I like lots of it, it is user friendly, it has a set of tools that others try and sometimes succeed in reproducing, though it seems ASP8 seems to have reproduced at least one feature of a competitor, being the new patch layer tool, though I must admit it looks better with ASP then the competitor.

I like the multi-core rendering of 7, even though it does not like embedded scripts, which I use allot(Mike posted about that on another thread)

What I dislike, well, plenty as well. I dislike the fact that more and more half baked tools are cluttering the interface, the fact that bugs that existed in v6 seem to still be there, that bugs that we're taken care of in v7 seem to have come back in v8, I dislike the whole amateurish tools that are getting developed instead of fixing things that need fixing and that time can could be spent on useful, widely asked for features instead of a Poser import or other tools that are arguably useful.(I do not know of a single pro animator who is using Poser, though there might be tons of those!)

All said, this is still a product that rocks solid, that beats up pretty much everything that I used before, but it could also be allot more.

Btw, I am developing a full length 2d movie and so far I am planning on using ASP, although I am having a presentation of a new version of a competitor's product this week that could change that, very doubtful though! ;)

Again, thanks for your interest in the community and thanks to Mike as well, who was severely missed here in the last few years!

GC
User avatar
petel
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Bristol UK
Contact:

For what it's worth

Post by petel »

I've been using this software since the early days. I'm also a professional and I've always been happy with upgrades and happy to pay for them. I appreciate development costs etc. and I've been following the various comments with interest. As with any software we all have our likes and dislikes. My problem is that in such a crowded market place I've always done my little bit to promote what I believe is the better animation software on the market. I also understand market forces and didn't think the window of opportunity to pay for an upgrade was sufficient to read the various comments to make up my mind. I also will have to upgrade my work machine from 10.4. i think that two versions is sufficient but would have liked to have seen some element of lower upgrade costs to those that have used this kit in a professional capacity for some time. That way we can continue to use it on a daily basis with standard deadlines etc. and feedback in order to promote it to new users etc. and continue to feedback to the development team. This in no way is a negative reflection on the development team or my fellow animators who have all taken the time to comment here. At least we're talking about this application
Aritz
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:08 pm
Contact:

Post by Aritz »

Hi. I am Aritz. I have worked professionaly in animation industry last 12 years. I have done traditional animation my first years but I specialiced in 3d working as modeler, shader, rigger, lighter, scripting... in many tv series and movies. Last months I am making many 2d animations by clients request, and I was using 3ds max. I recently start using Anime Studio for faster workflow, but I have followed its development since Moho days (Really, I prefer Moho name).

Here my BLOGGER: http://aritzaizpurua.blogspot.com/
and VIMEO page: http://vimeo.com/aritz

About Anime Studio. Well, many people said it before. Anime Studio it is a very proffesional tool, but it does not look. The box/splash screen images, color themes, and very low quality default libraries (heavy libraries), makes it like hobbist tool. Since Moho->Anime Studio transition, all version are focused always in new features, but many old tool remain the same.

And here some feature request:
- Screen/Canvas color picker
- Tranparency in gradients
- Start maximized in windows
- More subdivision for for images influences by bones
- REAL bone locking
- IK constraint
- Multiple shape selection
- Save/load GUI colors and options
Tori
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:25 pm
Location: Watsonville, CA
Contact:

Post by Tori »

GCharb wrote:Hello all!

First of, hello Tori, nice to meet you, kind of. Thanks for your interest in the community and may I had that you look absolutely lovely on that 2008 video interview! ;)
:shock: Oh the time capsule that is the internet! I will never escape being interviewed by Braveheart! That said, I can't wait to go back to the Con this year. I had been many, many years in a row, but took the last 2 years off to get ready for summer events and releases in the office. It's going to be great to be back on the floor - but I'm ducking any camera that comes by way. Hope to see some of you there!
Rudiger
Posts: 786
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:25 am

Post by Rudiger »

digitalartguru wrote:
Rudiger wrote:be more expensive and therefore less attractive for beginners. There could also be a lot of features that are really only useful for collaborative work in a studio and not by a single-user.

I personally think there is room for 3 versions. One for beginner users, one for intermediate users, and one for advanced users.
@Rudiger
@Patmals

So you really want SM to invest their programming and time resources on having to re-create another version? Wouldn't you rather them spend that precious time on making these two versions SOLID and BUG FREE? I really think this is why we still have issues that haven't been resolved from version to version. We need the Smith Micro programmers to focus on these issues and solve them once and for all to make each new version a real upgrade and better.

As an ex computer programmer myself, I can tell you that it takes a lot of time and effort to put together software and if I have too many projects going at once, they will all suffer and the product will be crappy.

Something to think about!

I say, let make the current versions the best they can be without complicating things any further.
I take it you're aware that Debut and Pro aren't developed independently of each other? They would share the same code-base and there would be something like a compile flag called DEBUT, that would disable certain features when compiling the Debut version. A third version would work the same way. Features would be added to the code-base, but be disabled for the Debut and Pro versions.

It's really just a marketing issue. Having 3 versions would allow Smith-Micro to continue to release these 2 versions every year, but have a longer release cycle for the third version to give themselves the time to develop the more serious features required by industry professionals and make it as robust and bug-free as possible.

By the way...
@slowtiger AS8 lets you select the layer of any shape using the new Vector Shape Selector tool or Alt-RightClick
@Aritz AS8 has transparent gradients
paulcopeland
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:04 pm

Hi Tori. Nice to meet you.

Post by paulcopeland »

Hi Tori.

It is great that you are here. I trust that you will be a great asset to the online community and continue to be an asset for the company.

I am a 100% beginner in animation. I love ASP 8 as for me it will keep me busy for a long time to come :) My background is in music, I can't even draw a straight line, but with ASP 8, I am sure I will do better :D

The drawing tools are cool and easy to use. Creating simple animations or complex ones (not that I can create complex ones yet) seems to be very easy.

Best wishes to you and the team and keep up the great work.

Paul.
Get my free piano sheet music here http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/pianoedition
User avatar
InfoCentral
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 8:35 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Import

Post by InfoCentral »

To sum in all up in one word I would pick, Import.

I am seriously looking at the next version of Reallusion's jump into the 2D market with Animate! The sole reason is that you can animate just about any picture you want. From photos to drawings. Just import the image, add the bones, and off you go. Well nothing is ever that simple but the fact is that it has superb image importation. Something AS really needs to work on.

BTW, I did upgrade to 8 Pro.
User avatar
Squeakydave
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:44 pm
Location: UK - London-ish
Contact:

Post by Squeakydave »

A new version of Anime studio!...
I'm still on 5.6 and looking at the new feature list that is where I shall likely be staying.
I think all the other professionals have nailed it but I will add that the basic animation features - Curves, interpolation, having locked bones stay where the are locked etc etc have not improved since Moho. While Doing animated projects to a deadline (and budget) all the work arounds and quirks just grind me down.
Fingers crossed for version 9
User avatar
DK
Posts: 2849
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:06 am
Location: Australia

Post by DK »

I must agree with Squeaky. I started with Moho v2 and these day still use 5.6 most of the time but am gradually integrating v8 in some projects.

High on my list is reliability. I produce Television content on a weekly basis from series to TVC's and cannot afford to have the headache of bugs. There are some nice features in later AS versions but as long as I have the basics and the software works that's all that matters.

D.K
User avatar
digitalartguru
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:15 am

Post by digitalartguru »

Squeakydave wrote:A new version of Anime studio!...
I'm still on 5.6 and looking at the new feature list that is where I shall likely be staying.
I think all the other professionals have nailed it but I will add that the basic animation features - Curves, interpolation, having locked bones stay where the are locked etc etc have not improved since Moho. While Doing animated projects to a deadline (and budget) all the work arounds and quirks just grind me down.
Fingers crossed for version 9
Hey dave ( Squeaky - I like that name!!!! )
You are correct. This seems to be one of the main problems with the software upgrades.
Tori at SM has brought these issues to the attention of the SM team and it looks like they are going to take a good look at these and make things happen in the near future. I am hoping this happens. AS needs it pretty bad.

Thanks for mentioning it. I am sure that all of this input will help the SM team in making AS a better product.
barryem
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:44 pm

Post by barryem »

Tori wrote:Hi Barry!

I'm definitely not the one to have that conversation with, I wasn't involved in those discussions or decisions. Unfortunately as well, we've recently lost Sarina who was truly the one to have those conversations with. We're getting our awesome PM up to speed, and he's VERY excited to start conversations with you, but it may be a few weeks before he's in the trenches with you guys. I know that at some point, everyone starts to have a list of their own personal wants and wishes, and as I've seen with the Poser development, that can create quite a demand on the developers and decisions do have to be made. Software developers serve many masters - which is why I said, I understand when some people skip a version or two until the thing they've been waiting for can be scheduled on the list. I hope that my reaching out here is just the start of the dialogue and we can continue communicating well into the future. I don't have these answers you're looking for now, but I'm hoping over the next few months, they bubble to the surface.
I'm not looking for answers. I like AS. I'm a very amateur user and it does a lot more than I'll ever need and I'm pretty happy with it.

I also enjoy reading this forum and, while it's mostly friendly there seems to be a lot of dissatisfaction. I was trying to suggest a way you might deal with that.

I'm a retired software developer. I retired about 17 years ago after 35+ years writing software and leading software projects for both local government and multinational corporations. It's been my experience that communicating with the users is very important and most important at all is that it be two way communication. That's what I'm suggesting. If you're not the person to do that then read my suggestion as "become that person".

Barry
User avatar
Squeakydave
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:44 pm
Location: UK - London-ish
Contact:

Post by Squeakydave »

digitalartguru wrote: Hey dave ( Squeaky - I like that name!!!! )
You are correct. This seems to be one of the main problems with the software upgrades.
Tori at SM has brought these issues to the attention of the SM team and it looks like they are going to take a good look at these and make things happen in the near future. I am hoping this happens. AS needs it pretty bad.

Thanks for mentioning it. I am sure that all of this input will help the SM team in making AS a better product.
I hope so but as nothing has happened in 3 generations I'm assuming that these are not trivial updates and breath is not being held.
Post Reply