The worst (best?) cheats in animation

Rudiger · Post by **Rudiger** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:21 pm

GCharb wrote:To be honest, I am not a fan of automated in-between's, as they tend to look to mathematical and are often in needs of lots of tweaking to look good.

My favorite way of animation is by setting the default interpolation to step and just animate on two's.

Of course this is a personal preference!

Personally, I set the frame rate to 12 so it's like animating on 2s, and I just tweak the automatic inbetweening until it looks good. IMO, this technique gives you the best of both worlds.

GCharb · Post by **GCharb** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:33 pm

Absolutely, this is also great for posting to the Web.

I am just used to thinking on two's!

kphgraphics · Post by **kphgraphics** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:58 pm

GCharb wrote:Absolutely, this is also great for posting to the Web.

I am just used to thinking on two's!

What do you mean by two's?

SvenFoster · Post by **SvenFoster** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:06 pm

every 2 frames on 24 frames per second...

loosely equivalent to having something on everyframe at 12 frames per sec..

kellz5460 · Post by **kellz5460** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:57 pm

SvenFoster wrote:every 2 frames on 24 frames per second...

loosely equivalent to having something on everyframe at 12 frames per sec..

if you speed it up a half a second

I'm kinda wondering what are the benefits of animating at 24 if you're not doing really complex stuff

SvenFoster · Post by **SvenFoster** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:32 pm

kellz5460 wrote:
SvenFoster wrote:every 2 frames on 24 frames per second...

loosely equivalent to having something on everyframe at 12 frames per sec..
if you speed it up a half a second

I'm kinda wondering what are the benefits of animating at 24 if you're not doing really complex stuff

a) 24 / 2 = 12

b) 12 / 1 = 12

a = b

GCharb · Post by **GCharb** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:05 pm

LOL.

12 fps is pretty sweet for internet and downloads, as it makes smaller file size.

But if you output for tv, film, dvd, bluray etc, then you need 24 fps.

Also, running things at 24 fps also allows you to go on one's if need be, one's being used for very fast actions.

Rudiger · Post by **Rudiger** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:07 am

GCharb wrote:LOL.

12 fps is pretty sweet for internet and downloads, as it makes smaller file size.

But if you output for tv, film, dvd, bluray etc, then you need 24 fps.

Also, running things at 24 fps also allows you to go on one's if need be, one's being used for very fast actions.

While it's trivial to convert 12 fps video to 24 fps (every 2nd frame is duplicated), that's a good point about going on one's if need be. It makes me wish you set the interpolation to be on two's or three's instead of always being on one's.

GCharb · Post by **GCharb** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:26 am

rudiger wrote:While it's trivial to convert 12 fps video to 24 fps (every 2nd frame is duplicated), that's a good point about going on one's if need be. It makes me wish you set the interpolation to be on two's or three's instead of always being on one's.

This is why I like to set the default interpolation to step, this way I choose what is relevant or not.

And yes, if everything was at 12 fps all the time, it would be a waist of time to work on two's, but the ability to work on one's happen often, at least for movie productions.

Now, if I was making a tv movie, I would probably do it on 8 fps and use 12 fps for fast actions, so I would need to work at 24 fps to make it work.

If I was making a TV cartoon, then I would probably make it at 6 fps, and I would use 12 fps for fast action, making it irrelevant to work at 24 fps.

I think the important thing to understand here, is that you need to choose a tempo suitable to your production needs and your production budget.

The less fps, the more animation you can make, it all comes down to that really!

Rhoel · Post by **Rhoel** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:02 am

Rudiger wrote:
GCharb wrote:LOL.

12 fps is pretty sweet for internet and downloads, as it makes smaller file size.

But if you output for tv, film, dvd, bluray etc, then you need 24 fps.

Also, running things at 24 fps also allows you to go on one's if need be, one's being used for very fast actions.
While it's trivial to convert 12 fps video to 24 fps (every 2nd frame is duplicated), that's a good point about going on one's if need be. It makes me wish you set the interpolation to be on two's or three's instead of always being on one's.

One very good reason not to up-convert 12 to 24 is camera moves. A character animated on 2s and a camera move on 24 is much smoother than a 12 * 2s. Even if the character is moving forward on 2s on a 24 frps camera move, ASP's inbetweening minimizes or removes any cometting/bulleting.

Rhoel

kellz5460 · Post by **kellz5460** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:43 am

interesting- I started out animating at 12

then moved to 15

now I'm at 24 but then again I'm doing complex action scenes with fast movements and alot of stuff on ones.. well atleast Im trying to do that

Rudiger · Post by **Rudiger** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:31 am

Rhoel wrote: One very good reason not to up-convert 12 to 24 is camera moves. A character animated on 2s and a camera move on 24 is much smoother than a 12 * 2s. Even if the character is moving forward on 2s on a 24 frps camera move, ASP's inbetweening minimizes or removes any cometting/bulleting.

Rhoel

Yeah, that's a good point too. It's another reason I wish Anime Studio let you set whether the interpolation is done on one's, two's, etc for individual keys.

I have in mind a script that could do the upconversion to 24 in a smart way so you could keep the smooth camera moves and tweak any frames that need it.

GCharb · Post by **GCharb** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:46 pm

Rudiger wrote:I have in mind a script that could do the upconversion to 24 in a smart way so you could keep the smooth camera moves and tweak any frames that need it.

That's interesting Rudiger.
What would be the difference from regular interpolation?

Rudiger · Post by **Rudiger** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:04 pm

GCharb wrote:
Rudiger wrote:I have in mind a script that could do the upconversion to 24 in a smart way so you could keep the smooth camera moves and tweak any frames that need it.
That's interesting Rudiger.
What would be the difference from regular interpolation?

Well, for selected channels, it would create keys on every frame at 12 fps and then either duplicate them or make them step frames at 24 fps. For the remaining channels it would just rescale the keys.

GCharb · Post by **GCharb** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:10 pm

Rudiger wrote:Well, for selected channels, it would create keys on every frame at 12 fps and then either duplicate them or make them step frames at 24 fps. For the remaining channels it would just rescale the keys.

I see, this is something that could interest me Rudiger, let us know if you start working on that.

As I said, I usually work at 24fps but on two's, and there are some very valid arguments on this post why AS interpolation should be used.

But for me, the AS interpolation is just too smooth, which is why I prefer step interpolation and work on every two frames.

Besides, 12 fps is usually smooth enough, except for very fast actions, then I go on one's.

Again, it is about flavors and taste, but it works for me this way.

Also, if you work on every two frames, for economical reasons and use AS interpolation, you usually end-up making tons of tweaks, as things tend to go awry in the in-between frames, waist of time for me.