If walking is a controlled fall, y is layer trnslation nded?

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Telemacus
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If walking is a controlled fall, y is layer trnslation nded?

Post by Telemacus »

This is a bit of a hypothetical question, but if walking is a controlled fall in the physical world, why do we need layer translation in AS?
I know the question sounds a bit absurd, but given that AS does allow for object physics, shouldn't it be possible to actually make a character walk by using bone manipulation + gravity and physics only? (or perhaps adding a "thrust" feature?)
I understand that this isn't currently possible, but I wonder if some changes could be made to the way AS is designed so that a character could actually be able to walk without having to resort to the somewhat artificial process of having to translate layers...
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Víctor Paredes
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Re: If walking is a controlled fall, y is layer trnslation n

Post by Víctor Paredes »

I think you are thinking about something more like Phun:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=walk+phun
In theory, it should be possible to make that kind of living creatures in AS, but it's really not a "serious" option to make an animated walkcycle, in my opinion. Animation is a creative process, it's beyond the physic laws :roll:
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Telemacus
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Re: If walking is a controlled fall, y is layer trnslation n

Post by Telemacus »

Wow, didn't know about Phun, looks very interesting. :)
But it's not really what I'm after, I like AS the way it is. It's just that the walk cycles are always a little tricky and don't always look realistic, an issue which perhaps could be tackled by adding a "thrust" feature, and then perhaps we wouldn't need to have to translate layers.
I don't think AS would be any less creative because of that, just like AS didn't become any less creative when physics were introduced.
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heyvern
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Re: If walking is a controlled fall, y is layer trnslation n

Post by heyvern »

Using physics for realistic "human" walk cycles is impossible. Even the top 3D studios that use physics simulations for armies of Orcs don't use physics for the "secondary" walking or running movent, they animate the movement or use motion capture.

Using software physics to simulate walking is going to be just as difficult as all of the robot designers trying to build machines that walk like people. Even the ones that sort of work don't look natural. As a matter of fact those robot designers use physics simulations to test the software controlling the robot.

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On that note, I LOVE playing with physics in Anime Studio and have built all kinds of crazy creatures that wiggle and hop on 2, 3 or 4 legs, or slide around like a snake or worm. I love creating strange creatures that fight each other on a platform, "trying" to push each other off. Or they crawl through a maze.

I have tried to create a two legged auto walker with physics but it just never quite worked. 4 legged creatures eventually can move but it never looks natural and getting the motors and force values to work consistently is nearly impossible.

A physics "thrust" feature to eliminate the need for layer translation with a walk cycle is simply going to add key frames on a layer or bone anyway but it would take ten times as long to get the physics settings correct to create. It won't save any time and will actually make it much harder and take longer than simply doing it by hand.

Animating a walk cycle that looks good is going to be difficult but it's something every animator has to learn. There really aren't any good short cuts. There are some scripts and techniques around the forum that can help with the forward layer movement.
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Re: If walking is a controlled fall, y is layer trnslation n

Post by Víctor Paredes »

I don't remember if someone posted this here or on another place. Anyway, I think it's a very interesting approach about walk and run cycles (for videogames, in this case):
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1020583/An ... e-Approach
I think it's good talk and can contribute to the debate.
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heyvern
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Re: If walking is a controlled fall, y is layer trnslation n

Post by heyvern »

The beginning of that video reminds me of Animation Master "pose blending" and walk cycle on a path. In Animation Master you would design your walk cycle "in place" then a guide would show the stride length for adjustments. YOu could simply apply that character to a path or spline and the character would walk along that path perfectly with no sliding or needing to translate the character. It would use the predetermined stride length to move the character along the path while the feet realistically hit the ground in the correct spot.

However, this STILL requires creating a proper walk cycle. You still have to do that right, have the feet hit properly even when not moving to get it to look right.

I always felt that Anime Studio was getting pretty close to what could be done with Animation Master bone constraints and actions. For example, in the video posted by Selgin, there was the "mixing" or "tweening" of poses for transitions using that "wheel" guide for velocity for calculating forward movement.

I have always thought it would be a great feature for Anime Studio to have a way to blend actions and define walk cycles or actions along a path. in Anime Studio, if you had a character with an 'in place" walk cycle with a measurable stride length, there could be some sort variation of the "follow path" tool that would allow assigning an action. I think this concept would be much more useful than using physics for walking.

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I may have to back off a little bit on my previous post and say that maybe, it could be helpful to have physics used in some small way to define action blending in Anime Studio.

In Anime Studio, if some "global character" physics were set on a character, it's momentum, direction, collision, speed etc could be used to "activate" other actions. So for example if the character were following a path with a walk cycle action applied, and you keyed a stop and jump action, some physics could be applied or other secondary actions could be assigned. You for example, might have a way to "blend" between actions during a transition from a walk to a run.

The trouble with all of these ideas is that they are cool as heck and might have potential but the application and UI development would be a serious pain in the arse so to speak ;).
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