Advice on TV production

General Moho topics.

Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger

Nahmani
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:43 pm

Advice on TV production

Post by Nahmani »

Hey everybody, the studio I work with is dumping Toon Boom and either going back to Flash and After Effects (which we know how to do from our previous shows) or switching to Anime Studio Pro (which we're new to).

So I have some questions to help convince the bosses that we're not jumping from the frying pan into the fire. :)

1. Is there a list of TV shows made with Anime Studio? I hear there's a number of Irish studios using it, but how about anyone in North America?

2. What is the professional support like? Is it something extra you can pay for? The support on this forum seems to be for individuals, not studios. Is there another place where studio support is available? In spite of our issues with Toon Boom at least they have proper support (unlike Adobe).

3. Are studios doing the final comp in After Effects or can you go straight out of Anime Studio using the built-in filters?

4. Is the rendering output reliable? I saw a few bug reports on this forum saying that there's artefacts in certain cases. Are these fixed?

5. Scripts. This confuses the hell out of me. There seem to be a lot of them, that people say are essential, but is there a recommended 'starter kit'? We have really good scripting guys here, but we'd rather have them working on new scripts than reinventing the wheel.

6. Anyone have experience of a 30+ seat studio? I'm thinking we can adapt the processes we had for our old Flash setup, but if there's better options out there, I'd like to hear about them.

Any advice you can give will really helpful, you can PM me if you want to talk in private.

Thank you.
User avatar
synthsin75
Posts: 9935
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:20 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by synthsin75 »

Nahmani wrote:5. Scripts. This confuses the hell out of me. There seem to be a lot of them, that people say are essential, but is there a recommended 'starter kit'? We have really good scripting guys here, but we'd rather have them working on new scripts than reinventing the wheel.
As a scripter, I'd say Fazek's replacement tools are a good start, but I don't typically suggest giving up any stock tools until you find you have a pressing need, as third-party tools rarely keep up with new features. For any studio, you will most likely want to customize and maintain almost any script you find anyway.

Just ask on the forum if you're worried you may be reinventing the wheel. People are more than willing to help, especially if you have any inclination to share custom tools.
User avatar
slowtiger
Posts: 6067
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany
Contact:

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by slowtiger »

1. I'm not aware of any list of series produced in AS. I can only tell you the ones I participated.
2. There's no secret support for professionals. The knowledge is here in the forum. This will depend on what kind of rigging you're going to use. If you want to heavily use the smart bone stuff I'd recommend to hire someone like Selgin for a workshop (but only after your animators got familiar with basic AS usage).
3. Most productions I've heard of rendered at least animation and backgrounds in separate passes so they coud do some colour correction elsewhere. But that's not generally necessary, if you choose colours wisely and do some preliminary tests you might skip this step (also depends on style).
4. I rarely had any artefacts in rendering. Most could be fixed by just rendering some single frames separately. The most common error in my stuff is missing bitmaps, because I use a lot of them. Splitting scenes and render separate passes helps. No big deal.
5. I don't use scripts. Just don't need them.
6. 30 is a lot. You'll need a good production manager, a version control system, a large server, and a reliable backup solution.

Feel free to ask me in private if necessary.
AS 9.5 MacPro Quadcore 3GHz 16GB OS 10.6.8 Quicktime 7.6.6
AS 11 MacPro 12core 3GHz 32GB OS 10.11 Quicktime 10.7.3
Moho 13.5 iMac Quadcore 2,9GHz 16GB OS 10.15

Moho 14.1 Mac Mini Plus OS 13.5
dkwroot
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 6:56 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by dkwroot »

Something to consider is the fact that Anime Studio isn't really a drawing program as much as it's a modeling program. When I first migrated to this program from Flash, I was astonished by how similar is was to 3D programs like Blender and Maya as opposed to typical 2d drawing programs like Flash and ToonBoom. This is a fact that often polarizes people and causes a lot of frame-by-frame animators to make a huge fuss about it (often on the forums). Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Anime Studio and I can't recommend it enough, but the learning curve can be tough and frustrating for some so it'll take patience to get everyone used to it.

I'd suggest letting the animators toy with a copy of the program first and going over some of the material in the programs various webinars.

Now I'll answer what questions I can:

3: Anime Studio supports things like color blend modes, masking, lighting and basic blurs but nothing too fancy. A lot of people prefer to save their composition to png sequences and then composite their animation in another program. For example, Anime Studio doesn't support real motion blur which is something I take care of in another program. I also prefer to do color correction and everything else in other programs as they're more efficient at it than Anime Studio.

4: I've had terrible luck with rendering video with Anime Studio. Dropped frames, some artifacts and sound synchronization always seem to plague my projects. These days, I always render png sequences and then actually render my work to a video format in another program (usually Blender).

6: The pipeline that I prefer to utilize goes like this:
--Concept Artists create turnarounds, expression sheets, hand poses and backgrounds.

--Rigging team uses concept art to model the characters in Anime Studio. They rig bones and actions in preparation for animation. Unlike characters, Backgrounds should usually be loaded directly as rasters with minimal rigging. This maximizes time as it balances workload between the rigging team and traditional art team. Depending on the scene and how often the background is to be used, you want to make sure you're careful with shading. For example, a scene that is used very often and in various lighting conditions should have it's shading done within Anime Studio so that it's more versatile. On the other hand, one shots can be shaded within the raster to save time and processing power.

--Animators assemble scenes from rigs and background assets according to the storyboard scene they've been given. Use the library and a server to ensure version control.

--Animation Lead checks results to ensure quality control

--Animations are exported to png sequences and then brought into After Effects for post processing. This is where sound, color correction and the majority of special effects are applied.

--Animation is checked one last time before distribution.

If this workflow sounds like something that would fit in nicely with your team, then I'd suggest giving Anime Studio serious consideration. Just be prepared for the biggest complaint from your animators is that Anime Studio doesn't have good drawing tools. If you setup concept and rigging teams well, these little complaints should subside. :D
Telemacus
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:15 pm
Location: OZ_ually.

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by Telemacus »

That's a very impressive workflow, Dk.

Now, something in point 3 caugt my attention:
dkwroot wrote: 3: (...) For example, Anime Studio doesn't support real motion blur which is something I take care of in another program. I also prefer to do color correction and everything else in other programs as they're more efficient at it than Anime Studio.
Could you please explain what you mean when you say that it doesn't support "real" motion blur? which other program do you use for motion blur?

Cheers.
dkwroot
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 6:56 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by dkwroot »

Telemacus wrote: Could you please explain what you mean when you say that it doesn't support "real" motion blur? which other program do you use for motion blur?
Cheers.
Real motion blur is like normal blurring, only it has a direction to it and kind of smears the blur in that direction to give the illusion of fast motion. You can do motion blur in in a lot of different programs like AfterEffects and Blender. Just do a youtube search for real motion blur tutorials and pick a program.
Telemacus
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:15 pm
Location: OZ_ually.

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by Telemacus »

Thanks DK.

Yes, I know what motion blur is, I just wasn't aware that the motion blur effect that you can do with Anime studio is not "real" (for lack of a better adjective!) when compared to the motion blur effect that you can do with other programs.
dkwroot
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 6:56 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by dkwroot »

Telemacus wrote:Thanks DK.

Yes, I know what motion blur is, I just wasn't aware that the motion blur effect that you can do with Anime studio is not "real" (for lack of a better adjective!) when compared to the motion blur effect that you can do with other programs.
It's often called real motion blur because it's an effect that is seen in real cinematography. It has something to do with shutter speed, but I don't know all the details. Anyway, Anime Studio doesn't try to emulate real motion blur as much as it just tries to make a cartoonish blur through creating lagging images with gradient blurring and opacity. I found a thread by a user named Rudiger that demonstrates a method of emulate real blur in Anime Studio that you might be interested in. viewtopic.php?t=16822
Nahmani
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:43 pm

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by Nahmani »

dkwroot wrote:Something to consider is the fact that Anime Studio isn't really a drawing program as much as it's a modeling program. When I first migrated to this program from Flash, I was astonished by how similar is was to 3D programs like Blender and Maya as opposed to typical 2d drawing programs like Flash and ToonBoom.
This is how a lot of companies use Toon Boom nowadays, including us.
Nahmani
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:43 pm

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by Nahmani »

Thanks for the information, everyone.

So the consensus is to do the final comp in After Effects for big shows?

I've got a couple of people playing with Anime Studio now. They say the drawing tools aren't as accurate as Flash, in terms of the line keeping the curve you want. Is that a thing? Or are they just doing it wrong?
User avatar
slowtiger
Posts: 6067
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany
Contact:

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by slowtiger »

I think AS is exact enough for all kind of work, maybe with the exception of highly geometrical design stuff.
AS 9.5 MacPro Quadcore 3GHz 16GB OS 10.6.8 Quicktime 7.6.6
AS 11 MacPro 12core 3GHz 32GB OS 10.11 Quicktime 10.7.3
Moho 13.5 iMac Quadcore 2,9GHz 16GB OS 10.15

Moho 14.1 Mac Mini Plus OS 13.5
dkwroot
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 6:56 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by dkwroot »

Nahmani wrote:So the consensus is to do the final comp in After Effects for big shows?
It doesn't have to be After Effects. You could use alternatives like Blender, Nuke, Smoke and Natron.
User avatar
synthsin75
Posts: 9935
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:20 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by synthsin75 »

Nahmani wrote:I've got a couple of people playing with Anime Studio now. They say the drawing tools aren't as accurate as Flash, in terms of the line keeping the curve you want. Is that a thing? Or are they just doing it wrong?
I have done photo-realistic art in AS, with no problems getting the AS vectors to faithfully reproduce any line-work. If you want to PM me with any problem artwork and a file of their attempt, I'd be happy to give you specific pointers. But overall, you should be able to accomplish anything with efficient point count using the point curvature tool. It does take some practice though.
Nahmani
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:43 pm

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by Nahmani »

Dkwroot - we know After Effects already, so it's easier for us than Nuke or Smoke. I don't think any companies our size use Blender or Natron for compositing TV work.

Sythsin - thanks for the offer. Sounds like we just need more practice.


I haven't received any PMs or replies from anyone working in larger studios yet. I'll give this post a little longer, but it would be very useful to hear from someone with real experience of the issues my studio would face.
aongus
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:49 am

Re: Advice on TV production

Post by aongus »

I found Anime Studio's drawing tools difficult to learn at first. AS uses a very different approach to other drawing or graphic software. For someone with experience in Illustrator/Photoshop/Flash, this can be a problem. What solved the issue for me was an excellent video tutorial on infiniteskills.com, which explained the unique drawing toolset in Anime Studio. I'd recommend this for anyone considering a major investment in Anime Studio.

http://www.infiniteskills.com/training/ ... ro-10.html
Post Reply