Personalizing Char Wizard or work around?

[DrawMonkey]

Good *insert time of day* everybody,

I'm trying to figure out the Character Wizard button. It's pretty impressive the amount of tweaking you can get from a base character. But is there a way to "upload" a build? It would be really useful for series if you can build your main character once with the right types of restrictions that works for the style of the show and drop it in the character wizard and just tweak the height and stuff so there is minimal fixes to do for secondary characters. Just don't know if that's even possible.

If that doesn't work, what would be the best way of doing this? Is it actually possible to just transfer bone layers to a new file? Is it just a matter of saving a base model and keep reusing it? Changing bones and "symbols" as needed? Cause that doesn't sound too hard until you try to resize a whole group like a switch layer full of hands, or even the main switch layer with all the character's turnaround info in it ( haven't been able to figure out how... betcha it's easy ).

If anybody can help with this it would be suuuuper helpful. It's the one thing that I can see making Anime not faster/better for full production over something like Flash.

Cheers.

[chucky]

HI DrawMonkey ,
Aaaah the steeeenky character wizard.
You can do a lot by replacing the standard art with your own, but, the body is always going to be procedurally made and basically unusable in a pro workflow.
So firstly, put that ol' thing away, there is nothing for you there if you want to go to production.
Anyway..
It is great to hear such intelligent questions from a nooby to this app ( though obviously not to animation).
There are a lot of ways to transfer data from rig to rig.
The main thing to watch id the naming conventions of your bones.
Organisation of you file through naming of all assets ( and colouring ) can really help.
I personally use a protocol that keeps the channels in the timeline channel in a good order too.
So anyway once you have built your deathstar.. I mean rig you can easily transfer animation between them by copying and pasting.

I particularly like to use Mike Kelly's script http://www.kelleytown.com/forum/animato ... IC_ID=3175 for this as it compensated for limb length differences .

I think this is an area that is well worth advancing in ASP and time for improvements has possibly come as so many other production tools have been implemented recently that the list of requirements are getting shorter and shorter all the time. The character wizard's days must be surely be running out, it is sooo out of place, even though it's original intention was certainly a neat idea.

I would continue to explore what is available in ASP for modding rigs. Then if you get a really clear idea of what improvements would best help your production, send your death star... I mean an 'email' with your ideas over to Smith Micro and post it to the 'help shape the future' topic . The devs really do lurk and listen around here (unlike other animation forums) . They value intelligent suggestions and are lightening fast to implement improvements.

[DrawMonkey]

Hey there Chucky ( from Childsplay ),

Thanks so much. I was starting to figure this was more wishful thinking than anything that would work. Not knowing how much programming it would mean, I think it would be a wicked asset to be able to set your own characters in the Wiz but it seems easy enough to just transfer build pieces. I was also really just thinking about the build stage and not yet gotten to it animation wise. So I'm glad you mentioned it. Also glad it sounds like it's just as easy as long as you keep bone naming conventions similar throughout.

I still haven't found ( not that I was really looking for it ) how to colour code layers in my Death Star... I mean, project. I'm sure it's sssuuuuuuuuper complicated. I hope I can find a class somewhere that teaches it.

While waiting for responses I did play around with copying bone layers to a new file and resizing them and at least that's easy enough too. I did quickly notice how some areas ( or bone chunks ) are more easily moved if you just unparent them before moving them. Like the connections between the torso bone and either arm. Makes it easier to manipulate that spine like a good doctor would... on the Death Star.

[Telemacus]

We've been requesting that the character wizard be upgraded for years now (it's been the same since version 7 or perhaps earlier!), but to deaf ears it seems.
It's sad because I think Anime Studio would reach a lot more potential customers if they made character creation both easier and more attractive (and maybe change the name of the product one day!).
Currently I resort to sites like http://avachara.com/ for a quick sketch of new characters. (btw, does anybody know of any similar sites? they're hard to find)
If you wanna feel jealous about what other companies are doing regarding character creation, check out crazytalk 8 youtube tutorials. Granted, crazy talk is mainly used for faces (you can export headsets to their other programs), but still... it's like watching a still turtle and a coyote having a race...

[DrawMonkey]

I actually like the name ( to pick the most important part of your post ). It works really well with their other product, Manga Studio. Manga for a comic art program and Anime Studio for their animation software. Makes sense to me while referencing stuff I like.

But yeah, if they made the Wiz a little more robust, it would be a huuuuge advantage. The problem I see is that the builds themselves are very basic and are not characters anybody could use for a series or movie or whatever production you want ASP for.

[chucky]

You can make your own character wiz, Here is an example of some characters I created using a nearly random / percentage /conditional generator script inside Anime Studio.
Warning my induce seizures

Excuse the odd invisible part, gif ran out of colours

You press one button and a magically random character generates with billions of variations.
I haven't got size and position built in to this version though.
Literally hours of fun can be had, sitting there pressing the 'mix ' button, you get some real freaky mixes, no kidding.
It's like going to the market...This bunch of characters I see as being teachers , what do you think?


I made the various parts and then applied Mike Kelly's brilliant 'no limits' script ... to be found here. http://www.kelleytown.com/forum/animato ... IC_ID=2257
Of course I had to make all the noses and eyes and skin colours, all the parts, the script just mixes them, but that's the thing about creating stuff, a wizard is never going to make your style for you. You have to put something in to get something out, otherwise the creation is just an illusion; if all the parts are made by someone else , that is.

Just a little note on the beleaguered and maligned Character wizard ( I am as guilty as anyone of tearing it apart and I rarely look at it) .It actually has had small changes over the years, I think more enthusiasm for it might have seen more improvement.
We are probably partly responsible for its neglect by being so critical, when it might have been able to become a very useful tool with a different approach.
I think the content examples drove us all away in, well droves eh?
It wasn't easy enough to add our own stuff into it and the samples weren't cool enough.
I would love to see a complete rebuild though which is totally redesigned around the premise of generating much more customised rigs and a brand new set of base artwork that inspires the user to strive further.

[DrawMonkey]

Hey Chucky,

Those characters do look cool, skin or no skin . But as much as I think the Wiz is cool it's just not super useful in a studio setting. At the studio I work, in the 10 years I've been here, we've seen shows of all styles come through. To give the ability to upload a certain character build to it is really the only way this would be viable. Especially since the bone setup that I saw seems very rudimentary. Even in my extremely noob approach to ASP I've made something more complex ( and I'm gonna say still useful ). I'm sure the more I play with it I could make something better. And then there are people who really know how to use it. In the same way that some people sell bone structures for 3D programs, it could actually be fun to use someone else's and learn from it.

But I do think that el Wizo shouldn't be taken out of the whole program though. It's definitely good for anybody who just wants to generate a build to animate and try things out. It's just not useful for a full feldged production.

Really it would be nice to ( and I really have to get off my butt and drop this in the right thread ) to be able to upload a series' main character ( cause that's usually what a show's secondary and beyond ( BEYOND! ) characters are based on ), you could just make slight changes as far as size and <POOF!>, you have a good base to play with.

It does look like it can be done with the root file anyways so this may be a moot point.

[chucky]

One word to start this post.... extras

SO I don't think anybody would be talking about generating the stars of their show in any way like this, proportions and rigging need to be carefully individualised for them, so lest just put that aside for now.

' the wiz', as it stands is useless in a pro environment.
That's exactly what I am saying,'
I think it should be removed and replaced with a different mechanism.

The particular set of characters above I did in a style for an individual series- they only really belong in extras in that show.

Another show would need all different facial parts and colours, line styles and the rest.
The biggest hurdle is proportions, but that's by no means impossible, that would take a programmer's skills to work out implementation.

I do think that some kind of generator ( a bit like the one I just demonstrated) might be good for crowds and extras.
Anime is pretty good at pasting animation from one rig to another. So after making a few ingredients based around a style , Extras could be knocked out easily in this manner. Especially as all the colours are taken care of, so there's no messing around with that.

Having said that and knowing that main characters should always be designed around character ( and just for argument's sake- I doubt I would ever do this), you could in theory use my 'casting couch ' file that's what I call it as an identikit rather than a random generator and select a character's visual traits systematically .
You could get the ' gist' of the character and then perfect the nuances from there.

I'm working on a show for TV right now ( done in flash of course) that could easily be done better in ASP. Most of the characters actually look like they have been spat out of a generator ( albeit a very good one with limited variables ) as the style is good for it. Admittedly there aren't enough extras in the show to warrant it.
No one wants extras and crowds, but when required would it be great just to roll them out without breaking the bank or your sanity?

[DrawMonkey]

Yeah, all good points. You made me realize that what I'm actually looking for in it is not so much generating a full character, but it's really to generate a bone structure that you've stretched or squashed to make a new size. We have a separate process/department for concepts. But that brings the extra problem of resizing the bones as close as possible to the other character by eyeballing the difference.

I'm talking gibberish now.

That's awesome if you were able to use it to make a slew of characters. Our last show had anthrapamorphic animals as characters so faces weren't always your usual facial features. And that kind of brings up the appearance of real, four-legged animals. I don't even know if I've ever seen that tackled in ASP.

Thanks for the post Chucky.

[ktron]

Maybe what's really needed is a "Bone Wizard"?

After all, a walk cycle is more-or-less a walk cycle; most animators work with carbon-based earth-style life forms.

Biped/quadraped/fishy/beastie - number of fingery/toe/finny-thingies, eye-ball/ear-count etc... most of those elements are replicated between the bulk of characters within a production.

When you're animating with an IK approach, bones require the most consideration. And they offer the best opportunity for the kind of replication that enhances efficiency.

So something that recognizes the strengths of the IK setups in ASP, and allows you to incorporate them at the design stage of the production process would be a huge work-saver. You can build a library of motions/constraints that can be moved from character to character and tweaked as needed.

Most characters have equivalent bone structures. Assuming you can animate using a standard set of bones/constraints, it would be extremely beneficial in a production environment to be able to transfer those animations to an equivalent bone structure . . . hence the "Bone Wizard".

[DrawMonkey]

Yuuupppp.

An easy example is the difference in skeleton between a show like Archer with very realistic proportions and rules versus a show like Adventure time with noodly arms and wacky rules.

[DrawMonkey]

Apparently I just wrote a AAA post. Neat!

[chucky]

So, go to the library look in characters.
There you will find some hurriedly muddled together animals with different bone lengths made by some dude calling himself CK .
They all have walk cycles and other actions ( this was before the new smooth joint binding which I would have certainly used).

So anyway once you have built your deathstar.. I mean rig you can easily transfer animation between them by copying and pasting.

I particularly like to use Mike Kelly's script http://www.kelleytown.com/forum/animato ... IC_ID=3175 for this as it compensated for limb length differences .

I basically copied and pasted all the quadruped and bird walk cycles between each other on top of copy/pasted and then adjusted by length bone rigs.
I still do this now on humans animals, machines, whatever, it is all very possible and easy right now if not obvious.

Incidentally they were all painted in Manga studio.

Anymahoo
There it is quadrupeds of different proportions with the same actions at the core, adjusted to suit the new character.

Here's an approach to systemise this.
So there are these template things in the menu. They can be very useful.
Save a empty bone rig as a template maybe with generic proportions.
Adjust as is your want, longer legs longer tail, necks whatever.
Then using MK's brilliant ' swiss army bone tool' apply a walk cycle from another rig from the same template.
It will adapt to the new rig proportions as long as the naming conventions and basic bone layout are the same.
Then you can play about with the cycles timing and existing to enhance its individuality.
Try it.