First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

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thecrave
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First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by thecrave » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:55 pm

Hello all! I was wondering about everyone's first impression of MSP 12.

-Crave
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Lukas
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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by Lukas » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:05 pm

I'm really happy with the new (old) name, and even happier with the features. I've been using the beta for a while and definitely recommend upgrading.
thecrave
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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by thecrave » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:16 pm

Lukas wrote:I'm really happy with the new (old) name, and even happier with the features. I've been using the beta for a while and definitely recommend upgrading.
What is your favourite new feature?
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Greenlaw
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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by Greenlaw » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:44 pm

I like a lot of the workflow improvements. The new Moho Exporter makes is a lot easier to set destination paths and it can remember multiple destinations if you tend to switch between a lot of different scenes and productions. Being able to tag almost anything is really cool--you can use this to specifically filter what you want to see and work with in the Layers Panel. I also like how Moho can use relative paths for projects now--this makes it a lot easier to move files between a studio network location and a local mobile drive mobile without breaking file associations. That probably doesn't sound very sexy but it's actually all a huge deal if you make short films as opposed to quick one-off animations.

The timeline also has some small changes that have a big impact on workflow, like the ability to mute channels. For example if you need to disable camera motions so you can edit a Smart Bone action or a character animation. Or let's you want to reanimate a character's walk cycle but the x-translation is making it difficult--now you can mute the x motion and work on the cycle 'in-place'. When you're done with your edits, just unmute all the muted channels.

Needless to say, the multi-layer display in the timeline will change how every body animates in Moho.

I love all the new 'wow' features too, like Mesh Warp, Pin Bones, etc., but for my day-to-day use, it's the workflow improvements in Moho 12 that really make this an important upgrade.

Actually, Mesh Warp really is pretty awesome. In the past, I've had to export my animations to AE and use Puppet or Liquify to get similar deformation effects, but with the way it works in Moho 12, Mesh Warp is not only convenient, it's way more powerful too. This even changes how we work with bitmapped characters because it gives the ability to assign Actions to correct bad joint deformations.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Psmith
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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by Psmith » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:06 am

Greenlaw:

Exactly how would you use Smart Mesh functions to correct joint deformations in an Action?

My testing shows that Smart Meshes have no effect on Shapes that are being manipulated by Bones - since the Bone deformers override every other kind of deformation?

When a Smart mesh is a subset of a Bone Layer - its functionality is overridden. When a Smart Mesh is contained outside of a Bone Layer - it has no effect on any Layer that is already a subset of a Bone Layer.


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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by funksmaname » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:29 am

Hey Greg, if your mesh is on the same level as the layer you want to effect (so both under the bone layer) it will effect the layer as well as the bones.

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Greenlaw
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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by Greenlaw » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:29 am

A Smart Mesh layer is technically just a Vector layer and you should be able to tie any deformation corrections for it to a Smart Bone. This is similar to how we've been able to do it for rigged Vector art in past releases.

Just to be sure it worked, I tried a quick test right now and it works perfectly.

I'll post an example when I get home tonight.

Edit: Looks like funksmaname beat me to it but I'll post my example anyway. :)
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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by Psmith » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:38 am

Greenlaw:

Nope, doesn't work with a vector layer, just try these steps:

1) Create a Vector Layer.
2) Create a Vector Layer that encircles just part of the Shape found on the first Layer.
3) Create a Triangulated Smart Mesh.
4) From the first Layer's "Vectors" section - assign the Triangulated Smart Mesh Layer as the Smart Mesh Layer.
5) Create a Bone Layer and pull both Vector Layers into this Layer (as a subset of the Bone Layer).
6) Create some Bones in the Bone Layer - to distort and manipulate both enclosed Vector Layers.
7) Create some keyframes by moving the Bones.
7a) Try to create some keyframes by Scaling the Smart Mesh Layer.

On step 7a, you will notice that scaling the points of the Smart Mesh Layer has no effect on the other Vector Layer.


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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by synthsin75 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:00 am

Greg, do your vector shapes have enough points? The warp mesh influences points, so it needs to cover some points and have enough points to make the warping apparent.
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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by Psmith » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:37 am

Wes:

Well, I don't know if I used enough points, or not - but I would say there were about 20 points encircling a small area of the Layer to be distorted - which had fewer points. At any rate - there was absolutely no distortion taking place AFTER the Bones were introduced. Before the Bones were made, the Layer in question was distorting just fine. Only after both Layers were inserted under the Bone Layer did the Mesh distortion become disabled.

In the Manual and the Tutorial Manual there is absolutely no reference to using Smart Meshes in conjunction with Vector Layers contained within a Bone Layer - or even involving Bones, at all. It must not have been in their design intentions.

The way Funksmaname demonstrated the use of Smart Meshes involved an Image Layer as a standalone base for distortion by a Smart Mesh. Great fun for making funny faces - but really not much use if it cannot be articulated and moved in conjunction with other Shapes - by means of Bones.

If there is some workaround to do this thing - it certainly is not intuitive - and must require some particular order of executing the steps necessary.

At this point - I give up on this particular experiment. Nobody seems to be up to making a straightforward, step-by-step set of instructions showing all the ways Smart Meshes can be used in the Brand New Moho. I wonder if such instructions are to be found in my $100 worth of tutorials that I can't seem to lay my hands on?


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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by synthsin75 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:46 am

Greg, I wouldn't put the warp mesh layer in the bone group...at least I see no need to (unless you specifically want the mesh influenced by the bones). I usually use it to warp in an additive way over what the bones do, but YMMV. If you have an example file you'd like me to demonstrate on (with step-by-step instructions), I'd be glad to. Just let me know what you're trying to achieve with the file.
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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by Lukas » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:51 am

thecrave wrote:
Lukas wrote:I'm really happy with the new (old) name, and even happier with the features. I've been using the beta for a while and definitely recommend upgrading.
What is your favourite new feature?
Hard to say.

I'm loving the multi-layer editing, as it makes the software so much more versatile. In previous versions I always tried to control everything as much in 1 layer as possible, because it was hard to manage timing if the keys were on all kinds of different layers. That is no longer a problem and that's a huge deal.

The improved drawing tools and bezier curves also step up Moho's game, because you can actually draw good looking things if you're a good with a pencil.
And smart warp and pin bones of course really extends Moho's possibilities, especially because they work in combination with all existing techniques (you can bind the mesh-warp's points to bones and combine them with smartbones etc.
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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by Psmith » Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:22 pm

Wes:

What we've seen demonstrated concerning Smart Meshes has largely been with the examples of face manipulation. That is probably where it is going to be most useful.

Here's an example for which you can write a working Step-by-Step tutorial: Create a Vector Layer for the face. Make the primary structure of the face (without eyes, nose, mouth) influenced by one Smart Mesh. Create individual Vector Layers for eyes, nose, mouth - each also influenced (assigned to) their own Smart Mesh Layers. This form of isolation of features is meant to facilitate a head turn.

Now, without the use of bones, moving and animating each separate Smart Mesh in conjunction with their corresponding Drawing Layer Meshes would not be practical, would it? Neither would animating all of the individual vertices of each Smart Mesh be practical. Also, how do you parent all of the Layers mentioned, first to the face - and the whole group to a body - so it follows where the body goes?

Bones must be used to make this scenario practical.

My hours of experimentation have proven that all of these Layers can be animated individually and distorted, each one, by its corresponding Smart Mesh Layer - however impractical this technique may be. Yet, once you subjugate all of these layers under a Bone Layer - you will see that all of that animation is gone - because it is being overridden by the distortion introduced by the Bones.

Both you and Greenlaw insist that this is not the case. Since I cannot prove this to myself - please show me my error.


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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by Greenlaw » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:18 pm

Hi Greg,

It's the same exact process for doing corrective morphs for vector artwork because Mesh Warp layers are just regular vector layers.

Here's an example I threw together in a couple of minutes. I even added some biceps to the bitmap in the corrective Smart Bone action:

Image

I'll post the scene shortly.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: First thoughts on Moho Pro 12?

Post by Víctor Paredes » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:25 pm

You can check Kukulkánn and the Crocodile from the startup files. Both use Smart Warp in different ways.
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