Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

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mattchee
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by mattchee » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:29 pm

JaMike wrote:Another thing I am considering, since Moho is so good, is to upgrade every other version.
I thought about that, but then I saw that they only offer upgrades from 11 right now, so you'd be buying the full version. That said, based on the current pricing structure, that would be the same as upgrading twice anyway. Might as well split it into two payments, upgrade now, and enjoy 12 vs. pay for two upgrades and be using 11 until then.
JaMike
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by JaMike » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:34 pm

mattchee wrote: I thought about that, but then I saw that they only offer upgrades from 11 right now, so you'd be buying the full version. That said, based on the current pricing structure, that would be the same as upgrading twice anyway. Might as well split it into two payments, upgrade now, and enjoy 12 vs. pay for two upgrades and be using 11 until then.
It's $200 to upgrade from version 11, $270 to upgrade from versions earlier than that. So you'd be saving $130 for the year you miss out.
PRIMAL MORON
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by PRIMAL MORON » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:16 am

They need to offer long time users better prices, because i use anime studio for business, i actually use it for my freelance design setup with PS CS5 (before that CC crud) and even when i make money, i can't fathom how this price is justified for the people who are supporting you for so long, who honestly cares enough here, to pull out your wallet, every year or two, and take 200-400 bucks out of it for one upgrade copy, when the majority won't be buying the software and it still can't do some of the stuff you need it to. I love Moho, I really do, but i am finding the company running it is doing increasingly more gouging to our wallets. Either keep the rate fair for your returning customers, or you won't have returning customers, this is kind of embarrassing and shameful. I think most of us would agree 200 is too high for an upgrade, and 400 is still pretty bad for beginners, you won't sell a lot of copies for 400 dollars, because people do have many free or even lower priced alternatives, and based on the features i saw, i don't see any of them that scream "200 for an upgrade!" i won't even be able to get this program if the price isn't dropped, and might consider writing a letter about it later on.
jayfaker
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by jayfaker » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:55 am

I think $200 for an upgrade is fine, especially as it seems they are enlarging the team to speed up development. I need the app to play better in a professional environment and so all the new innovations are worth it for me.

That said, as I see complaints from hobbyists that Moho Pro is too expensive and the new features aren't for them, I think maybe it would be a good time for Smith Micro to beef up Moho Debut to a $199 - $249 product that gives amateurs only what they want/need as hobbyists, and let Moho Pro be for those who really want/need the professional features.
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by Fuzatron » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:57 am

PRIMAL MORON wrote:They need to offer long time users better prices, because i use anime studio for business, i actually use it for my freelance design setup with PS CS5 (before that CC crud) and even when i make money, i can't fathom how this price is justified for the people who are supporting you for so long, who honestly cares enough here, to pull out your wallet, every year or two, and take 200-400 bucks out of it for one upgrade copy, when the majority won't be buying the software and it still can't do some of the stuff you need it to. I love Moho, I really do, but i am finding the company running it is doing increasingly more gouging to our wallets. Either keep the rate fair for your returning customers, or you won't have returning customers, this is kind of embarrassing and shameful. I think most of us would agree 200 is too high for an upgrade, and 400 is still pretty bad for beginners, you won't sell a lot of copies for 400 dollars, because people do have many free or even lower priced alternatives, and based on the features i saw, i don't see any of them that scream "200 for an upgrade!" i won't even be able to get this program if the price isn't dropped, and might consider writing a letter about it later on.
Maybe you need to raise your prices too :wink:
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strider2000
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by strider2000 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:02 am

Unfortunately, I'm in the ranks of those who were excitedly looking forward to the upgrade, (even putting money aside) but won't be taking the plunge. I was kind of fearful that this was coming when I saw the wooing of Harmony folks. It's pretty clear that they're goal is the high end professional market.
herbert123 wrote:Toon Boom charge $375 for their entry level program, $975 for a more advanced version and $1975 for the premium edition.

TV Paint will set you back around $566 for a standard edition and around $1417 for the professional edition.
That's exactly my problem. I'm not a professional. I'm an avid hobbyist. I don't make a dime off of animations. I just do them for fun, so I cannot justify an investment equivalent to those other products or even the current upgrade pricing for Moho.

Smith Micro and company have every right to try to grab more professional users market share and I'd be very surprised if they haven't done the market research. I'm sure there will be many professionals who will upgrade. Why not! And I'm sure they'll want to keep the price high to avoid the "That can't be very good, it's only $200" syndrome. The sad part to me is that the mid range is getting left out. If I had 11 with the Debut enhancements I'd be happy (though the bezier handles and smart warp look cool), but as it is I can't even get the enhanced drawing tools that a beginner can get :( Plus, I see the select switch window, which looks an awful lot like my post (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=29211 Really sad that the beginners get it, but I won't :( I guess I'll just have to implement it myself. Good thing I have it almost there based on help from synthsin75 (thanks :)) I really hope that my lipsync script doesn't wind up in there :oops:

Perhaps it's time for three levels, Debut, Standard and Pro. Standard could have the features that the hobby geeks want (ie the tools), but the Pro version can add all the collaboration and professional items. I have no need for FBX support, Separate rendering, or Layer Comps. (I'm sure others have a different list, but I'm also confident that SM could figure out what would be a good mid-range, or perhaps sell add ons). Even reference layers are interesting, but I don't use them much. I _think_ those of us who are disappointed with the price hike, provide valuable feedback to the Moho team. And we can understand the value, we just can't afford it.

I hear that there could be special pricing later, but I'm not going to be holding my breath. Again, they have every right to do what ever they want, but it's just too steep for me :(

Another idea, if anyone at SM is listening, is continuing to sell the older Pro software at a substantially lower price when the new version comes out. I'd buy it, but I still like the "same as previous pro, plus debut upgrades" idea better.

I'll still tune in to the webinar tomorrow, but it will be a pretty sad day for me tomorrow (unless of course viewers get a special discount because of their amazing interest and loyalty :D )

I guess the good news is it'll help me spend less time on animation. I guess I was getting to obsessed with it anyway ... but then again with the new world of open source and free downloadable just about anything there are a lot of options. I just started looking today and DragonBones looks cool http://dragonbones.com/en/index.html#.V6zN800rKUk. Sure it's no Moho, but I'm only a hobbyist. I just like playing :)
My new website (just getting started) | M1 Characters for Moho
funksmaname
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by funksmaname » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:19 am

strider2000 wrote: Perhaps it's time for three levels, Debut, Standard and Pro. Standard could have the features that the hobby geeks want (ie the tools), but the Pro version can add all the collaboration and professional items. I have no need for FBX support, Separate rendering, or Layer Comps. (I'm sure others have a different list, but I'm also confident that SM could figure out what would be a good mid-range, or perhaps sell add ons). Even reference layers are interesting, but I don't use them much. I _think_ those of us who are disappointed with the price hike, provide valuable feedback to the Moho team. And we can understand the value, we just can't afford it.

...

Another idea, if anyone at SM is listening, is continuing to sell the older Pro software at a substantially lower price when the new version comes out. I'd buy it, but I still like the "same as previous pro, plus debut upgrades" idea better.
You make some good suggestions, I hope they are discussed internally :)
v11 will continue to work, so there's no reason to 'jump ship', there have always been huge sales, and taking the new strategy into consideration it's very possible some changes to pricing around previous versions may take hold...?
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synthsin75
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by synthsin75 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:25 am

Beginners should probably stick to Moho Debut, since everyone can afford that. For hobbyists, what would any replacement hobbies cost in a year? Can you bowl or play golf for a year for less than $200? Hell, can you go out to dinner for two once a month all year for less than $200? Once you start comparing what you could be doing, other than Moho as a hobby, it seems Moho is a pretty cheap hobby.

I doubt SM wants to maintain three tiers of Moho, and I'm sure someone would complain if Debut jumped in price.

Hey Danny, is that bird clapping?!
ruscular3d
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by ruscular3d » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:25 am

I am not understanding what the price of a software have anything to do with being a professional?!?!?

I mean if that the case then Donald Trump would be consider a professional and acting like one because he spent a lot of money!

What I am talking about is doing what you state that you promise to do! That's being a professional. I can't believe we are still equating the amount of money we are spending to be a determination of what is professional?!?!?!
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InfoCentral
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by InfoCentral » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:51 am

herbert123 wrote:I can wait, and in the meantime I am having a lot of fun in OpenTOonz and with the upcoming Grease Pencil animation tools for Blender I have enough to keep myself busy with.
Yep, right there with you. I am also using Crazy Talk Animator but I mainly want to focus on Grease Pencil. Sorry to see the high price hike on AS but like you said, plenty of FREE alternatives to keep you busy...
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funksmaname
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by funksmaname » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:33 am

synthsin75 wrote:Hey Danny, is that bird clapping?!
lol - slowclap. :D
PRIMAL MORON
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by PRIMAL MORON » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:49 am

Ok, the person in charge of marketing should be fired, there are way better features in this program then they let on.

We got these excellent features you guys didn't even bother to mention:
SVG export, not just import, EXPORT!
Workspace creation. (like custom content folder, only you can create for any kind of project you need, it sorts the stuff for you.)
Moho Exporter (batch export done right, you can add stuff right from the library)
Tags and comment systems by layers and full integration with the library. (good for organizing)
They barely touch on the ergonomic color system, which adjusts to light and dark with a highlight/shade of your choosing for the accent. (way better control over colors)
Image sequence imports in one layer, (or at all.)
Tick box to freeze points. (next to relative points)
Search box right in the layers based on tags, comments, types of file, name of layers.
You can open the current doc in the library automatically.
You can replace the file explorer with the library system by adding custom folders.

And this is into the what, 7-8 features they highlighted...?
This is why you guys need to speak up, i didn't know any of this before.
This is why you guys need to release more feature updates on this stuff, it's important!
mattchee
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by mattchee » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:53 am

JaMike wrote:
mattchee wrote: I thought about that, but then I saw that they only offer upgrades from 11 right now, so you'd be buying the full version. That said, based on the current pricing structure, that would be the same as upgrading twice anyway. Might as well split it into two payments, upgrade now, and enjoy 12 vs. pay for two upgrades and be using 11 until then.
It's $200 to upgrade from version 11, $270 to upgrade from versions earlier than that. So you'd be saving $130 for the year you miss out.
OH! I must have missed that when I looked before. Nevermind then. Good strategy (and perhaps I'll do that).
ThatsNotAllFolks
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by ThatsNotAllFolks » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:08 am

I think the prices are fair. I don't want an el-cheapo less than quality animation software program. And I don't want membership month to month program like Adobe. Moho (Anime Studio Pro) is an excellent top notch program and we should like to keep it that way with future versions. I'm not sure that they can't do this if they give new versions away at lower prices.
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synthsin75
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Re: Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

Post by synthsin75 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:47 am

PRIMAL MORON wrote:Ok, the person in charge of marketing should be fired, there are way better features in this program then they let on.

We got these excellent features you guys didn't even bother to mention:
SVG export, not just import, EXPORT!
Workspace creation. (like custom content folder, only you can create for any kind of project you need, it sorts the stuff for you.)
Moho Exporter (batch export done right, you can add stuff right from the library)
Tags and comment systems by layers and full integration with the library. (good for organizing)
They barely touch on the ergonomic color system, which adjusts to light and dark with a highlight/shade of your choosing for the accent. (way better control over colors)
Image sequence imports in one layer, (or at all.)
Tick box to freeze points. (next to relative points)
Search box right in the layers based on tags, comments, types of file, name of layers.
You can open the current doc in the library automatically.
You can replace the file explorer with the library system by adding custom folders.

And this is into the what, 7-8 features they highlighted...?
This is why you guys need to speak up, i didn't know any of this before.
This is why you guys need to release more feature updates on this stuff, it's important!
I guess those weren't seen as "sexy". But this goes to show how big the Moho release really is. Most of us who have been using it have trouble remembering all the new goodies. It always pays to read the ReadMe.
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