Disappointing expensive Moho 12 Update

[JaMike]

In any case I don't expect SM to be moved by the concerns of individual customers. They're going to look at their sales balance. If it turns out they miscalculated, they might adjust the price.

I hope not! That kind of thinking is what put Toon Boom's prices through the roof.

If their sales go up (because of the great new features) then by your logic they'll put the price up again next year just to see what happens.

Smith Micro are a $30 million company. They have many different products and revenue streams. They don't have to start gouging their customers that have the least disposable income. And to their credit, they don't. They've picked a market and priced accordingly.

Smith Micro have been really fair with the pricing of Moho up to now. It used to be a no-brainer to upgrade. Now people are having to think about it. Unless Smith Micro is moving into the professional market exclusively, they should realize that they are now at the higher end of what the market will stand.

[exile]

Smith Micro are a $30 million company. They have many different products and revenue streams. They don't have to start gouging their customers that have the least disposable income. And to their credit, they don't. They've picked a market and priced accordingly.

It's your last sentence I agree with most strongly. They have to strike a balance between what they ask and what they can get. It's business acumen and not philanthropy.

One way to double the income of a digital product is to double sales at the same price. Or, if you double the price and keep the level of sales, you achieve the same balance. So I agree with you - anything is possible in the future, but it looks like SM is leaning toward the second option.

The market for animation software is probably limited, unless you can get a new crowd of novices excited about it with every new release (without losing your previous customers). I'm just second-guessing their thinking, this isn't likely to happen on a large scale.

An additional consideration: Quality is not the only criteria for price. There are irrational factors in marketing, such as prestige of the brand (cool, must-have products that touch off the herd instinct), being better known than competitors, being able to reach a larger audience with product hype. Companies like Apple and Adobe have been successful in attracting a huge customer base in spite of (in my subjective opinion) inflated prices. But the king of the mountain always has to fear new competitors - it's perfectly possible that Moho could take a share of the high-end market. If that happens, we're just out of luck. People who come up in the world don't need to hang around with their old buddies anymore.

[stealingfeathers]

Compared to TVPaint or Toonboom Harmony the upgrade cost is quite cheap. In my opinion the software is worth the price. The difference between ASP 11 and Moho 12 are huge. Big improvements have been made to old features, and lots of new features have been added.

I agree. When I saw the "teaser" info on the improvements/additions, I was expecting the upgrade price to be at least 100.00 USD higher than what we were used to. Sure I said, "Ouch" anyway. I was hoping for early buyer discount, but that didn't happen. Okay, I admit I was disappointed about that. But still, Smith Micro needs to be competitive with animation programs in the same class. I'm very happy that they have invested the time to work on it. I prefer Moho over Adobe Animate and I've been waiting for upgrades such as this. I'm excited to start using Moho 12 and I'll buy it as soon as I can save up a little more $$!

[Kalamonkey]

Here is my issue: A new version of Anime Studio Pro (ver 11) was released in June, I bought the upgrade. Had I known that a new version was going to be released a few months later (a very unusual amount of time between versions) I would not have purchased the June update, I would have waited until August and bought Moho Studio Pro 12 and saved myself around $40. You can't tell me that S.M. didn't know in June that they were close to a new version.

I believe there should be a more welcoming price for buying the latest greatest and a new version a few months later. Of course S.M. has the right to do with what they please, this seems to be a bit of a bad public relations move.

[drumlug13]

AS 11 was released over a year ago.

[pihms]

My take is simple. They are creating a software for both amateur/hobbyist and pros. Debut for amateur/hobbyist to make it affordable, unless you don't mind paying the bigger bucks, and Pro for, well, the pros, who have more bucks from their paid work. As pointed out by someone in the discussion, in order to keep the software in production, pay salaries, make it worth for the company to sell, they have to offer it at a price that would cover those costs. The costs for comparable software is much more than what you have to pay for Moho. If your a hobbyist and you can't afford the Pro version, maybe consider Debut. No matter which you choose, It's a great software at a competitive price.

If they offered it at the pricing others were offering, I believe that Moho would have too much competition and the clientele would be smaller, even though most of us believe that Moho is a superior product. They would look at what products are most commonly used in the market. A smaller clientele would be less demand as well as less likely it would have continued support.

The pricing is good in my perspective, and the upgrades, whether in Debut or Pro, make it a great product for all.

[Psmith]

Well, I actually don't think Smith Micro - with a focus on Moho - has actually "come up in the world" - not actually.

From what I have been able to deduce about the market for all kinds of graphics software, I can see that customer interest is waning - as expressed by overall sales - for all kinds of products, in many different disciplines. The emergence of new companies with innovative software has definitely slowed - and revenues have shrunk - with the exception, possibly, of Autodesk. The long lasting hype that has fueled this market is losing steam.

And, people, worldwide, are spending less - and scrutinizing the things they do buy. Frugality has become a necessary virtue in order to survive.

Over there at Smith Micro, the price increase for Moho is probably out of necessity - due to shrinking sales. And sales have shrunk for the reasons I've given above. When customer interest shrinks, sales shrink too.

Any of you who have observed the Anime Studio forums - tracking back 10 years or so - can see that there are fewer posts - less enthusiasm - and, when users are bold enough to admit it - less money in their wallets. You can see this trend by observing other forums - numbers of posts, enthusiasm, quality and quantity of advertisers (I am thinking of the once extremely popular forum "CG Society" as an example).

Perhaps, also, Smith Micro overestimated future revenue - causing them to invest money in Moho development resources (people and their salaries). When pushed against the wall, something's got to give. Raising prices for consumer goods is an easy way to try and recover from bad projections.

And, with Moho under the market lens, I believe that Smith Micro is betting on increasing revenue by directing their resources and energy toward cultivating a "Professional" market - (a bit behind the times - and a bad choice, in my opinion).

We'll see.

Oh, and as an overall graphics software market barometer, just compare your experience of many, many Siggraph Conventions over time.


Greg Smith

[jahnocli]

Well, I'm as disappointed as anybody that I can't afford to upgrade just yet, but I think this analysis is unduly pessimistic. I'm reminded of a quote from a patents office worker at the end of the nineteenth century, who said that patents offices should be closed because everything worthwhile had already been invented. When you look at the range of features for your money, the Moho pro version is great value for money. For me, the only disappointing thing is that I'm going to have to wait for a sale.

[mattchee]

Well, I do agree that SM is probably focusing Moho more on the pro market. The re-brand is evidence of that. The increase in price could either be to make up revenue for focusing on a smaller market, or to add prestige to the brand. Likely both.

[stealingfeathers]

I'm disappointed that nothing has been done to improve the character wizard. It hasn't changed since version 8 or even earlier.
It still takes a few hours to create an original nice looking character with Moho. I think other 2d animation programs are much better at that...

The Character Wizard has never been very popular since its release (although I've seen some vids that used the characters from it). I suspect that this isn't high on the most requested feature. Maybe with enough demand...

I'd be curious to know which other 2D animation programs makes original nice looking characters in less than a few hours.

It's good for beginners anyway. I let my students play with the wizard to help encourage and inspire them. If you include a walk cycle with the import of a character, it can help a beginner understand how bones work and how to animate them. The character wizard has been a time saver for me when I want to show "how to" examples for students and not re-use my handmade characters for the umteenth time. So, I'm glad they haven't removed it. Improving on it would be okay with me, too. But I can see why they haven't bothered.

[Oddity]

Hi Everybody,

after the effervescence of comments about this topic, i would like to simplify the purpose of my post:

Money paid works, no problem with that.

Increase of software: no problem

Increase of a Software of 50% ( 299$>399$ ) : no problem at all

Increase of a Upgrade of 100% (99$>199$) : this is the real problem.

Considering an increase of 100$ for the soft AND for the upgrade IS the problem.
Because the percentage is not the same.
I think is where smith micro made a mistake with this mathematical fact.

And this is the reason i create this topic.

Other considerations, anti-hobbists, people who finished any creations or not, prices of other softwares,etc... are not the point.
We don't care WHO USE MOHO ( newbies, amateurs, pros ) AND WHY ( fun, testing, etc...).

Of course Moho 12 is still affordable and it deserve it but here there is ONLY the fact of the numbers here and prescisly percentage are the PROBLEM and the motivation of this post.

SO, hope smith micro will take consideration of this fact and will becarefull in the future with...percentages.

All of it will be my last words about that.

Peace and love to Moho, his Team and all the users

[synthsin75]

Increase of a Software of 50% ( 299$>399$ ) : no problem at all

Increase of a Upgrade of 100% (99$>199$) : this is the real problem.

You're still comparing special sale prices (even if an early adopter sale) versus regular upgrade price. Not a fair comparison. The regular upgrade price from Pro 10 to Pro 11 was $149.99 (not $99): https://web.archive.org/web/20160101201 ... rades.html

So the real, honest comparison is $150>$200.

So while the full price increased by 50%, the upgrade price only increased by about 33%.

[onurdemirsoy]

I live in Turkey and the price is also high to me but this program let me earn this money in a day. Programmers are so nice people, always add great features we asked before. Competitor applications are more expensive than Moho so I think this program and crew deserve to sell Moho for this price.

[vidi]

The regular upgrade price from Pro 10 to Pro 11 was $149.99 (not $99)

starting price
http://my.smithmicro.com/marcom/eblasts ... 6ab8110e73

[synthsin75]

The regular upgrade price from Pro 10 to Pro 11 was $149.99 (not $99)

starting price
http://my.smithmicro.com/marcom/eblasts ... 6ab8110e73

Yeah. See the part that says "33% OFF". That means it was a sale price, not the regular price people are comparing to the current regular upgrade price. And even that says the regular price was $279.99. "Starting price" doesn't mean regular price...or even that all starting prices will be sale prices.