Moho 12.3 Update

General Moho topics.

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Ahroo
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Moho 12.3 Update

Post by Ahroo » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:00 pm

Just wondering if anyone has installed it and what you're experiencing - are crash issues resolved? New problems?

People over on the Moho Pros Facebook group are saying that there have been problems installing the Mac version, but apparently not the case with the Windows version.

Thanks.
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jmartins
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by jmartins » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:43 pm

Hey guys,

Just a quick heads up, we've removed the Mac version of the App update, as we're having issues with the signing of the application, as there were issues on certificates when the machines were migrated to Pittsburg. We're currently sorting out the solution, should have it fixed by tomorrow.

Windows versions is working as expected.

Best regards,
João Martins
Lead Developer - Moho
Smith Micro
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mionorz
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by mionorz » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:10 am

Hello. jmartins
Thanks for the update.

Please tell me the details of this update.
I can not grasp what is being modified by the description on the homepage. :?
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by jahnocli » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:27 pm

Despite being on Smith Micro's mailing list, I haven't even had a notification of this yet, just "special offers" which seem to be on some sort of carousel. Can't help thinking that Smith Micro's priorities are all wrong. I complain sometimes about Google's data mining and personalised advertising, but at least they're not trying to sell me software which I've already bought from them over and over again. It's all dumb and annoying.
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
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Greenlaw
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by Greenlaw » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:38 am

I believe the most significant fix for 12.3 is improved stability related to Autosave. In 12.2, enabling Autosave could make the program unstable and even corrupt your project file, so it had been recommended that you disable Autosave. I'm still testing this feature before making the full switch to 12.3 for actual production work but, so far, 12.3 seems more stable than 12.2 was. If you want to use Autosave again, it may be worth updating just for this improvement.

Two new features were added for 12.3: 1.) Image Pasting via clipboard and 2.), if you have Pro, you can now launch the program in Debut mode when you wish. That last one is useful for people (like me) who want to develop training material for both Pro and Debut users using the same computer. Previously you could not install and run Pro and Debut licenses on the same computer. There may be other new features but those are the ones I'm aware of.

There are some other bug fixes but I don't have the full change log. Maybe somebody from tech support can post the full log?

Hope this helps.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by Greenlaw » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:53 am

Oh, I forgot one other new feature: Style and Action can now be docked together with separate tabs. That may be useful to some users.

For me personally, docking these two above the Layers panel takes up too much room away from the Layers Panel. Because of the high number of layers in our rigs, I need as much visible length for the Layers panel as I can get, so I won't be using this feature. For that matter, I need to see maximum length for the Action panel too because we often have 100 or more Actions per character.

Tabbing would be useful for me only when Layers panel can also be tabbed next to the Style and Actions tabs. I may even like to see the Keyframe and Layer Comps panels added at tabs. It would be great if we could get the kind of GUI/docking/tabbing flexibility found in other animation and drawing programs.

Until then, I'll continue to keep the Styles and Actions panels undocked.
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synthsin75
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by synthsin75 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:26 am

Greenlaw wrote:I would also like to see the Keyframe and Layer Comps panels added at tabs. It would be great if we could get the kind of GUI/docking/tabbing flexibility found in other animation and drawing programs.
Layer Comps were already dockable as a tab to the Style window in 12.2.
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Greenlaw
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by Greenlaw » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:41 am

Sorry, what I meant was that it should be dockable next to Layers panel along with other tabbed items. Currently, having the Keyframes panel docked next to the timeline takes away from the timeline, which isn't very helpful to many animators who need to see as much of the timeline as possible during animation (which is pretty much everybody I work with anyway.)

It really comes down to this: Moho needs to be more flexible with its GUI options, so it can be configured to suit a wider range of workflows and hardware setups. The options we have right now seem to be implemented to suit a specific user or hardware setup, and they haven't been ideal for most users.

What I'd really like to see is true drag-and-drop docking and tabbing, like what's available in most Adobe products, Harmony, and other animaton/drawing/compositing programs we use. Oh, and users should also be able to create custom layout presets. Sometimes you want to switch to a different workspace layout for specific tasks.
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synthsin75
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by synthsin75 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:48 am

Oh, I definitely agree about fully customizable drag and drop docking/tabbing.
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chucky
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by chucky » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:13 am

synthsin75 wrote:Oh, I definitely agree about fully customizable drag and drop docking/tabbing.
Yes, docking and tabs are very good and appreciated, but we need the option to maximise lengths, so more layout customisation would be great.
Of course action ,style ( and brush) lists could easily get shorter with some better organisation like folders and colour codes.
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Greenlaw
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by Greenlaw » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:52 am

I love your idea for the Actions panel. That would save so much space.

Just wondering: for actions that only have one 'side' enabled, should the second number column stay empty? For example, should 'Breath' in your Actions list only have a '1' next to it, not '1' and '2'.
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by chucky » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:55 am

Greenlaw wrote:I love your idea for the Actions panel. That would save so much space.

Just wondering: for actions that only have one 'side' enabled, should the second number column stay empty? For example, should 'Breath' in your Actions list only have a '1' next to it, not '1' and '2'.
Yeah sure, or nothing, that might be good too.
I think you made a call for custom tabs too, I'd support that.
For example ... facial expressions.... poses.... ambulation...
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Greenlaw
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by Greenlaw » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:43 pm

Moho currently has an exceptionally strong set of tools for rigging and animation, but now I'd like to see the developers focus on streamlining the UI. That's probably really 'boring' to program but, IMO, Moho really needs it. :)

I'm not necessarily talking about a major overhaul here. I can think of a number of simple tweaks to the existing UI that would greatly improve the workflow, like adding Copy Layer/Paste Layer to the Layers panel Right-Click commands, making the Peak and Smooth buttons available in the Transform Points tool options, adding a Delete Points modifier to the Freehand tool (like Delete Edge already has,) allowing bone strength to be adjustable in later frames so we can see the effects on a fully posed character (we can sort of do this now on frame zero with Manipulate but that's still not letting us see the effect on a fully posed character,) adding Z-rotation to the Rotate Layer XY tool (why do we have to switch tools for this?), make Color and Show Label available to Add Bone (again, why do I have keep switching tools for this?), etc.

To be fair, Moho's UI has gotten significantly better in the last few versions and I am very appreciative of that. But I still feel Moho is excessively 'clicky' where it doesn't need to be.

Admittedly, I'm not a programmer and I'm just guessing these requests are 'simple'. To me, it seems like most of this just moving around features that already exist in Moho and making them more conveniently accessible.
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by chucky » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:07 am

Greenlaw wrote:Moho currently has an exceptionally strong set of tools for rigging and animation, but now I'd like to see the developers focus on streamlining the UI. That's probably really 'boring' to program but, IMO, Moho really needs it. :)

I'm not necessarily talking about a major overhaul here. I can think of a number of simple tweaks to the existing UI that would greatly improve the workflow, like adding Copy Layer/Paste Layer to the Layers panel Right-Click commands, making the Peak and Smooth buttons available in the Transform Points tool options, adding a Delete Points modifier to the Freehand tool (like Delete Edge already has,) allowing bone strength to be adjustable in later frames so we can see the effects on a fully posed character (we can sort of do this now on frame zero with Manipulate but that's still not letting us see the effect on a fully posed character,) adding Z-rotation to the Rotate Layer XY tool (why do we have to switch tools for this?), make Color and Show Label available to Add Bone (again, why do I have keep switching tools for this?), etc.

To be fair, Moho's UI has gotten significantly better in the last few versions and I am very appreciative of that. But I still feel Moho is excessively 'clicky' where it doesn't need to be.

Admittedly, I'm not a programmer and I'm just guessing these requests are 'simple'. To me, it seems like most of this just moving around features that already exist in Moho and making them more conveniently accessible.
Dennis, your list is an excellent account of the obvious and bare minimum fix-ups that are both common sense and imperative.
There are many, many other simple tweaks but this lot should be swept through ASAP so as to get to the more complex issues.
Let's hope the new team will have no qualms with changing this stuff.
Here's another basic UI failure that is actually from the new UI, barely visible inactive text, when using the dark colour scheme.
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Oh anyone else think the reference arrows are too big?
Can you clearly see what type of layers are in that list?
Why is there such a huge gape between the on off toggle for timeline visibility/layer colour/etc? That's quite a waste of space.

And what about quick settings? If there was a ever an awkward position, this is it... You can't even see the rest of the list.
You can't see the layer's actual name while you change it in the input field....errr which layer am I renaming?
it's clumsy to exit too. we should just be able to pop straight to a new layer with one click and leave the thing open.... Quick! Right?
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JoelMayer
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Re: Moho 12.3 Update

Post by JoelMayer » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:59 pm

Just a quick heads up, we've removed the Mac version of the App update, as we're having issues with the signing of the application, as there were issues on certificates when the machines were migrated to Pittsburg. We're currently sorting out the solution, should have it fixed by tomorrow.
Not to be too harsh, but i don't see any update for the Mac Version so unless i'm doing something wrong (Help->Check for Updates) i really have to tell you that you should stop making announcements you can't keep. Almost half a year ago i was told in an E-Mail that the next Update is only "a couple of weeks" away. Then you say the Mac Update will come the next day... Maybe if you're unsure about something like this it's better not to say anything, sorry but it's kinda frustrating sometimes, thanks for understanding.
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