Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

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hayasidist
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by hayasidist » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:06 am

I'm a big fan of the vector shape / bitmap fill option. Most of the textures in this (done in 12.x) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFcyaKehHxc were done with that technique. (As a broad generalisation I use mid-grey bitmap textures; overlay a further highlights/shadows (light-dark grey) texture; then blend-mode overlay a colour vector - it's the vector that gets animated to change the colours.)

For me one advantage of Moho 13 is that I don't need to switch programs to tweak the bitmaps. And IMO the amazing brushes (mostly if not entirely created by Chucky) and how they respond to pressure, speed and stroke direction of the stylus on the tablet - e.g. velocity / opacity; direction / rotation - put Moho at a level above many bitmap drawing engines. There are a few niggles and omissions as far as I'm concerned, but I'm confident that these are "on the list" for future 13.x releases; and there are also several other things I'm hoping will be added to bitmap painting over the next few releases of 13 that will make this even better...
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djwaterman
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by djwaterman » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:07 am

Just played with those bitmap brushes and it's true, the anti-aliasing is not good. Please please fix this. It's not up to any sort of production level in the current state, crunchy even at 4K.
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bebemustacio
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by bebemustacio » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:18 pm

The default brushes are greyed, duplicate a brush and you can play with any setting you like.
Thank you Chucky, didn't know that, will try it right now.
Also, I have no doubt that Moho is best choice for what I need. My biggest consideration about Moho was, are SM team steal developing it. Just knowing that there is new version now, is enough for me to to go with Moho (instead of too expensive Harmony). New bitmap engine is just what I need for my animation style, and I'm sure that it will be better. Better organized action panel is also very usable for me.

Of course, still waiting to see the price (...some early bird discount will probably be good for more new Moho users who are still not sure if they should go with Moho... :mrgreen: )
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Greenlaw
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by Greenlaw » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:36 pm

Designspaceman wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:06 am
But you cannot combine it with vectors to get a visually convincing result. Its just like bebemustacio says: not ready for production...
How do you wish to combine it? Depending on your needs, there are two things you can try...

1. Use the Image Texture FX, or Masking. These are different ways to essentially do the same thing: combine vectors with textures. (I've talked about the different advantages for each method in past posts.) At the studio where I work, I've applied both methods in rigs for many of our earlier TV shows. (So, yes, Moho has been 'production ready' for quite some time.)

2. Use Hayasidist's Bake PNG script. With this, you simply select the layers you wish to merge (vector or bitmap), run it, and the result is a merged image layer. (The original layers are preserved.) This method is also proven in production.

That said, yes this first release has a few shortcomings but the dev team is aware and already addressing them. Trust me, they've got some great plans for Moho and this is just the beginning.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Daxel
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by Daxel » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:00 pm

Greenlaw wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:36 pm
Trust me, they've got some great plans for Moho and this is just the beginning.
You want to make me happy? because that's how you make me happy.
I can't wait to see some tutorials and examples of the techniques that you all are talking about being aplied in a rig c:
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by ruscular3d » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:04 pm

drumlug13 wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:25 pm
That's awesome & all Chucky but I gotta ask... How did you guys end up calling chickens "Chooks" down there? :D
If 2 foot make feets, then shouldn't 2 chook make cheeks? I had always thought chook were half a cheek?!?!?
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by chucky » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:14 pm

Australians sometimes use chooks as plural but more often just say it once for each bird.
For example someone with eight hens would refer to the plural of them as chookchookchookchookchookchookchookchook!
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chucky
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by chucky » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:51 pm

Hey I just found a workaround for the aliasing.
I found if you set the resolution a 4k then render half size then it effectively anti aliases the results, I know this is sort of crazy logic, but there it is :mrgreen:
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Tonymax
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by Tonymax » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:52 pm

Moho 13 up and ready to buy, $159 for pro upgrade....
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Greenlaw
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by Greenlaw » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:17 pm

chucky wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:51 pm
I found if you set the resolution a 4k then render half size then it effectively anti aliases the results, I know this is sort of crazy logic, but there it is :mrgreen:
That's exactly what the Higher Quality Rendering (HQR) option in the Image Layer Settings panel does. Enable it, and the image is internally rendered at double size and then scaled down to the intended target size. Extra Smooth Images must also be enabled in the Render options for HQR to kick in. (Note that this may increase render time up to 4x.)

Sorry, I haven't had a chance to check this feature in Moho 13 (tied up with a few other projects at the moment,) but Is it not working?
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by Greenlaw » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:25 pm

FYI, I've used the above to clean up 'buzzing' brush textures in the past. Moho has always had AA issues with texture brushes, and the problem is more noticeable in some textures than others. Because of this, I limit myself to the less problematic brushes.

This was brought up ages ago to the old dev team but maybe the report got lost in the transition? I haven't said anything for a while because, in recent years, I've mostly created 'clean line' characters in Moho. I'll bring it up again with the new dev team.

Another workaround I've done is to render the image sequence from Moho without AA, and then use OLM in After Effects to apply the AA in post. (Sometimes I'll do this just to get cleaner edges in compositing.)
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by chucky » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:25 pm

Hmmm I didn't get much joy out of the high quality checkbox.
It's annoying that you have to set it to layers individually/selecting.
I'd like it as a preference option and to see it have a bit more effect ao I didn't have to try the manual method. :cry:
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by Stan » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:04 pm

chucky wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:25 pm
Hmmm I didn't get much joy out of the high quality checkbox.
It's annoying that you have to set it to layers individually/selecting.
I'd like it as a preference option and to see it have a bit more effect ao I didn't have to try the manual method. :cry:
Hi Chucky, that reminded me that I already have a script for it. Just posted a link in the Scripting forum: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=32938
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Greenlaw
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Re: Any rumblings of a date for Moho 13 yet?

Post by Greenlaw » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:51 pm

chucky wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:25 pm
It's annoying that you have to set it to layers individually/selecting.
I'd like it as a preference option and to see it have a bit more effect ao I didn't have to try the manual method. :cry:
I agree there should be a global option. I do understand why it's like that; in many cases, you probably don't want every single layer in the project rendered this way. But yeah, there should be a switch for when you do want that.

Now that I'm thinking about this, the buzzy textured vector brush issue I described earlier doesn't use HQR because that's specifically an image layer option. But for textured vector brushes, I believe just enabling Extra Smooth Images in the Render panel should do the same thing. However, the problem with textured vector brushes is that the buzzing is always present with any of the textures, it's just less noticeable with some textures than others. The degree of the buzzing appears to depend on the contrast and gray values in the texture's alpha, and I'm guessing Moho isn't applying the alpha correctly. I submitted a bug report about this issue quite some time ago, but it might have gotten lost during the transition. I'll check on that this week; it's actually a pretty serious if you use textured vector brushes.

As for the new bitmap brushes, I haven't checked specifically for this problem but it sounds like a similar issue is present there too?

Will run some tests when I can make the time.
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