Because you said you have to draw every view.
The only program that's 2D that doesn't require you to is Solo to my knowledge...
Lookout Flash!
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
Yes, I figured out what you meant and edited my previous post accordingly.
LM has stated many times that Moho was not intended for that sort of animation, although you can use switch layers for doing simple frame-by-frame stuff. So this is sort of like marketing Adobe Illustrator as a 3D program because it has some extremely limited 3D features.
Solo really is overpriced.
LM has stated many times that Moho was not intended for that sort of animation, although you can use switch layers for doing simple frame-by-frame stuff. So this is sort of like marketing Adobe Illustrator as a 3D program because it has some extremely limited 3D features.
Solo really is overpriced.
Nope.Toontoonz wrote:Was wondering, do you happen to work for LM or eFrontier or have some connection?
When I fall in love with an application as completely as I have with Moho... it is hard not to defend it to the end... within reason obviously...
I might be a bit sad if I wasn't getting a "free" upgrade... that alone was a bribe large enough to take a bullet for.
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Moho is one of those rare applications that is... like zen. It just.. flows... the whole creative process just completely meshes with my brain. I can't explain it. I can flip open a blank project and create something very fast... just bang bang bang.
Many applications work... they work fine. I can get stuff done... but Moho is like... it just works so smoothly. It feels like an extension of my hand.
You could call it Suckyuckythisisblech Pro™ and I wouldn't even notice really... wouldn't make any difference.
I thought Moho was the most ridiculous silly name for anything I had ever bought. Anime Studio is a step up in my mind.
Other options:
CurlyHo
ShempHo
LarryHo
MannyHo
JoeHo
JackHo
HeteroHo
HoHo
LessHo
MuchMoHo
-vern
Heyvern - sounds like you like Moho.
You noted: "It just.. flows... the whole creative process just completely meshes with my brain. I can't explain it. I can flip open a blank project and create something very fast... just bang bang bang.
Many applications work... they work fine. I can get stuff done... but Moho is like... it just works so smoothly. It feels like an extension of my hand. "
Can you post some of those projects/creations that you created with Moho for all of us to see?
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I must say that if I saw "Anime Studio" on the shelf at the store I would probably not be interested - just conjures up an image of software (or game, maybe) that I would not be interested in.
Just like I have seen Manga Studio before and just the name Manga made me lose interest. If the had called it something with the words "Comic Book" (maker, studio,....) in the title and then had a highlight on the box "With special Manga effects" then I would have at least looked at it.
Whatever - at least eFrontier will bring in some professional marketing that was lacking. Compared to Manga Studio (and the other eFrontier programs), Moho/Anime Studio is stíll a beta product. I am very interested to see the new update.
You noted: "It just.. flows... the whole creative process just completely meshes with my brain. I can't explain it. I can flip open a blank project and create something very fast... just bang bang bang.
Many applications work... they work fine. I can get stuff done... but Moho is like... it just works so smoothly. It feels like an extension of my hand. "
Can you post some of those projects/creations that you created with Moho for all of us to see?
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I must say that if I saw "Anime Studio" on the shelf at the store I would probably not be interested - just conjures up an image of software (or game, maybe) that I would not be interested in.
Just like I have seen Manga Studio before and just the name Manga made me lose interest. If the had called it something with the words "Comic Book" (maker, studio,....) in the title and then had a highlight on the box "With special Manga effects" then I would have at least looked at it.
Whatever - at least eFrontier will bring in some professional marketing that was lacking. Compared to Manga Studio (and the other eFrontier programs), Moho/Anime Studio is stíll a beta product. I am very interested to see the new update.
I am working on a large project with a bunch of characters but can't show any of that no matter how proud I am of it and how much I really really want to show off. I burned a test to DVD and showed it to some family. They thought it was... bizarre... but funny (very strange plot).
I am using every trick in "my book" for this project. It still takes time.
Most of my other stuff is up on the forum.
I did this one in just a few hours... this was something that flowed from my brain and really clicked while I was creating it.
http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/where3.mov
When I say fast... it doesn't mean I pop out completed projects every afternoon. I have to do this in my spare time. It means that working in Moho doesn't require constant thought on where all the tools are... or... how to get something done... or....
... constantly strugling to get a curve to fit a tracing image...
Try moving a single point on a curve in AI... what happens to the curve handles???? The curve handles stay at the same angle it was drawn.
Moving a single point in AI is a 3 step process... sometimes 4... move the point... correct the curves... move the point... correct the curves. THIS DRIVES ME NUTS. It takes twice as long or more to move points around on a curve in Illustrator than in Moho... that was another reason for drawing in Moho... for Moho. I like the drawing tools in Moho. They could use some work but it isn't the end of the world.
Of course... AI didn't drive me nuts before I started using Moho.
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I think this comes down to the glass being half empty or half full... those who consistently repeat the same old complaints over and over and over obviously feel the glass is half empty.
I feel the positives far outweigh the negatives. For me the glass is half full... but... I still have posted feature requests... and post into those that I agree with... I still post bug reports when I feel like it... and sometimes workarounds if I have them.
I can't waste energy worrying and complaining about things that aren't going to be fixed for months... or ever. I have to deal with the limitations and stay positive. Easier to do with Moho than with many other apps.
I think time will tell. Down the road we will see what happens with Anime Sucks Lemons Pro™... or Mohanimator XP... or what ever they call it.
p.s. I HATE anime. I hate the traditional anime style. I despise anime. I hate the convoluted strange plot lines... the bizarre characters... but I understand it as a style of drawing and animating beyond it's origins and definition. Even having a general dislike of Anime... I still think that name wouldn't have any effect on my choosing a program... it the program kicks tushy.
Vernon "The Cheerleader" Zehr
I am using every trick in "my book" for this project. It still takes time.
Most of my other stuff is up on the forum.
I did this one in just a few hours... this was something that flowed from my brain and really clicked while I was creating it.
http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/where3.mov
When I say fast... it doesn't mean I pop out completed projects every afternoon. I have to do this in my spare time. It means that working in Moho doesn't require constant thought on where all the tools are... or... how to get something done... or....
... constantly strugling to get a curve to fit a tracing image...
Try moving a single point on a curve in AI... what happens to the curve handles???? The curve handles stay at the same angle it was drawn.
Moving a single point in AI is a 3 step process... sometimes 4... move the point... correct the curves... move the point... correct the curves. THIS DRIVES ME NUTS. It takes twice as long or more to move points around on a curve in Illustrator than in Moho... that was another reason for drawing in Moho... for Moho. I like the drawing tools in Moho. They could use some work but it isn't the end of the world.
Of course... AI didn't drive me nuts before I started using Moho.
-----------
I think this comes down to the glass being half empty or half full... those who consistently repeat the same old complaints over and over and over obviously feel the glass is half empty.
I feel the positives far outweigh the negatives. For me the glass is half full... but... I still have posted feature requests... and post into those that I agree with... I still post bug reports when I feel like it... and sometimes workarounds if I have them.
I can't waste energy worrying and complaining about things that aren't going to be fixed for months... or ever. I have to deal with the limitations and stay positive. Easier to do with Moho than with many other apps.
I think time will tell. Down the road we will see what happens with Anime Sucks Lemons Pro™... or Mohanimator XP... or what ever they call it.
p.s. I HATE anime. I hate the traditional anime style. I despise anime. I hate the convoluted strange plot lines... the bizarre characters... but I understand it as a style of drawing and animating beyond it's origins and definition. Even having a general dislike of Anime... I still think that name wouldn't have any effect on my choosing a program... it the program kicks tushy.
Vernon "The Cheerleader" Zehr
As you probably know, I am working on some stuff about the curves so I know this serious problem. But now I really think that Moho's way of handling the curves is a fault. Not the Curvature itself, but it is not enough flexible. Regular (cubic) Bezier curves are much better to handle, easier for the user to modify and, I think this is the most important, well experienced and many very good algorythms are already available for them. The loadable formats (.AI, .EPS) are also based on cubic Bézier curves, so the geometry conversion problems will be past if they include it into Moho.Try moving a single point on a curve in AI... what happens to the curve handles???? The curve handles stay at the same angle it was drawn.
Moving a single point in AI is a 3 step process... sometimes 4... move the point... correct the curves... move the point... correct the curves. THIS DRIVES ME NUTS.
I hope the changing to this e-something will force LM to change the curves in Moho into regular Bezier curves. I think it is possible to keep the old method too - as default, with a possibility to modify the handles (and afterwards, if you move the point, change the handles positions in a more intelligent way than AI does). It is easy to convert Moho curves to regular Bézier (but very hard to do it backwards).
- - - Fazek
I only just saw your post on this subject Fazek.
If you pull this one off... holy crap that will be really cool.
From what I think you are doing... it doesn't actually "change" how the moho curves are created or described... but it will let you modify them in a more flexible manner? Sort of "psuedo" bezier control? Am I nuts?
Does this sound right? Or am I completely off?
I tried out that demo tool you created and it looked very interesting.
I am all for more control. I am all for improvements. The problem I have is the constant griping when LM is and has been aware of the problem and has probably been trying to address the issue.
Anyone with a brain can see that there are issues with the curve description. It is probably the major drawback... but... you can work around it. I would prefer not to... someday...
In the mean time... I just deal with it.
-vern
If you pull this one off... holy crap that will be really cool.
From what I think you are doing... it doesn't actually "change" how the moho curves are created or described... but it will let you modify them in a more flexible manner? Sort of "psuedo" bezier control? Am I nuts?
Does this sound right? Or am I completely off?
I tried out that demo tool you created and it looked very interesting.
I am all for more control. I am all for improvements. The problem I have is the constant griping when LM is and has been aware of the problem and has probably been trying to address the issue.
Anyone with a brain can see that there are issues with the curve description. It is probably the major drawback... but... you can work around it. I would prefer not to... someday...
In the mean time... I just deal with it.
-vern
The problem is, Moho using only one parameter (Curvature) but Bezier requires four parameters at each points. See my solution to this problem at the topic:
http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4617
http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4617
- - - Fazek
Wow, this is the longest thread i've ever started on the Moho list 
I don't throw my two bobs worth in very often but I feel like this is the right occasion. The Anime Studio and E-Frontier discussion.
I can't say their (E-Frontier) Poser support is up to scratch lately. I'm working on a TV commercial using Poser 6 at the moment and I sent them a couple tech questions about 2 weeks ago which have totally gone unanswered. Hopefully we will always have our Anime Forum community to fall back on for any future Anime tech probs and I personally would be very sad to see Mike leave us. Secondly I'm really hoping cross platform for Anime and Poser will come out of all this as there are sh** loads of free 3D models out there in the form of 3D objects, rooms, props, characters you name it! I've been a Lightwave 3D user for many years and since Poser 6 was released i've totally dropped Lightwave. Why bother modeling my own stuff and spending hours tweaking highrange dynamic lighting, textures, bump maps etc when Poser 6 does it all so easily or you can buy a model for 6 bucks??? Man 3D has become sooo clipartish and I would'nt like to see Anime studio go fully 3D but it would make producing 2D animation a lot quicker if you could simply import a 3D scene as a background or some object and set it to render in a 2D textured format that could be tweeked to fit in with a 2D look. 2D always has been and still is is an artform in it's own right. Most TV commercials i have produced in the last 10 years have all been 2D at the request of the client. Just look at cartoon network and you won't see many 3D cartoons. Oopps. I'm getting off my soapbox now before i slip off folks
Cheers
D.K
I don't throw my two bobs worth in very often but I feel like this is the right occasion. The Anime Studio and E-Frontier discussion.
I can't say their (E-Frontier) Poser support is up to scratch lately. I'm working on a TV commercial using Poser 6 at the moment and I sent them a couple tech questions about 2 weeks ago which have totally gone unanswered. Hopefully we will always have our Anime Forum community to fall back on for any future Anime tech probs and I personally would be very sad to see Mike leave us. Secondly I'm really hoping cross platform for Anime and Poser will come out of all this as there are sh** loads of free 3D models out there in the form of 3D objects, rooms, props, characters you name it! I've been a Lightwave 3D user for many years and since Poser 6 was released i've totally dropped Lightwave. Why bother modeling my own stuff and spending hours tweaking highrange dynamic lighting, textures, bump maps etc when Poser 6 does it all so easily or you can buy a model for 6 bucks??? Man 3D has become sooo clipartish and I would'nt like to see Anime studio go fully 3D but it would make producing 2D animation a lot quicker if you could simply import a 3D scene as a background or some object and set it to render in a 2D textured format that could be tweeked to fit in with a 2D look. 2D always has been and still is is an artform in it's own right. Most TV commercials i have produced in the last 10 years have all been 2D at the request of the client. Just look at cartoon network and you won't see many 3D cartoons. Oopps. I'm getting off my soapbox now before i slip off folks
Cheers
D.K
Having handles on the curves would be simply a god-send ... The time saving would be substantial. I hop too that such a change would cure an earlier problem I raised - when you add a new line to a curve, it maintains it's shape.Fazek wrote:The problem is, Moho using only one parameter (Curvature) but Bezier requires four parameters at each points. See my solution to this problem at the topic:
http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4617
and
I have done this in the past and the obj file works fine ... you still have the problem that the mesh will need a texture map "burned on" - not sure Poser 6 does that.MarkBorok wrote: Poser uses the .obj format, and so does Moho, so bringing in Poser models should not be a problem, I think.
Rhoel
Okay, I just came back from Siggraph, where I saw the "Anime Studio" demo at the e-frontier booth. I have to take back some of what I said about Moho not being able to do traditional, cel-style animation. There was some truly amazing stuff on that reel. Although I still feel that the program wasn't set up for doing cel animation, it was quite mind-blowing to see.