One man feature length 2D-animation? and some links.

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nobudget
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One man feature length 2D-animation? and some links.

Post by nobudget »

Some years ago I saw a short piece on t.v. about a professional animator who decided to create his own feature length 2D animation. He used computers and his know-how of animation. He animated everything and even did all the voices using computers to distort the sound and create different characters.

Is there anyone who knows what project I'm talking about and where to find more information? I have no clue where to look but it does seem very interesting to see if he ever finished it.

On searching I found some others, but they used 3D:
http://www.lotsofrobots.com/
http://www.kazeghostwarrior.com/

Let me know if you find out who I'm looking for and thanks,

Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com
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mwtoons
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Post by mwtoons »

I checked out the lor site. Cool idea. Anyone on here buy the dvd? I might, I like his idea. Thanks for the info no bud.

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LittleFenris
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Kaze Ghost Warrior DVD

Post by LittleFenris »

mwtoons wrote:I checked out the lor site. Cool idea. Anyone on here buy the dvd? I might, I like his idea. Thanks for the info no bud.
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I had the Kaze Ghost Warrior DVD. I wasn't into it too much, but I'm not an Anime fan at all, so thats part of it. The reason I bought it was because it was done completely in Lightwave by one person and I had aspirations of doing a 3D animation myself in Lightwave, but soon figured out it was way more work than I was up for (think that a good 20+ minute animation like the Simpsons can take 20 people 6 months to finish). Imagine doing the work of 20 people yourself. The animation in Kaze is well done and the scenes look really good, but the acting (and sound recording) isn't all that great and the film itself drags on in my opinion. It's great one person did everything, but you can also tell. One person might be able to make everything in the film OK, but you really need multiple talented people to make a project great. One person just can't do all those disciplines great (modeling, texturing, animation, voice acting, music, post production, etc...). Again, if you like Anime you might like Kaze, if you don't, don't even bother buying it.

BTW, another animation done by one person that is still in production (but also 3D) is Rustboy. www.rustboy.com This is really looking like it could be great, but we'll see when the end result comes out. He's been working on this for years now and I don't think he's anywhere near finished.

Here's a good place for some independent animations: http://www.animwatch.com/
nobudget
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Post by nobudget »

The biggest problem in one-(wo)man shows is probably the lack of feedback. It gets harder and harder to have a fresh and semi-objective view of your own work. Most of those projects tend to get so personal it's almost impossible to get into the story as a viewer. And pacing is often clumsy. And of course time is a factor, if you work on one project for 10 years your skills and vision will have changed, should you go back and change older stuff, try to keep the same quality and therefor sacrifice new knowledge and technology or can you find a way to "upgrade" older material.

In any way, I think "building" a project in levels seems best. So instead of finishing scene by scene you lay the groundwork, the story, work out the characters, storyboarding, sound design and keep the animation itself as close as possible to the end of the project. Just think starting 10 years ago with Flash symbols and suddenly switching to Moho and in 3D the innovations are even faster.

Reindert.
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bupaje
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Post by bupaje »

I think it might be possible to do one man show with something like Machinma. For example 3D Game Studio is a real time 3D game development system and it is possible to set up a camera and script to record you actions as you walk around. I guess if you set up your scene and recorded some of the stuff like walking, panning around the city, following cars etc you could use a video editor to put them together and then save your energy for the scenes with more complex interactions.

Anyhow I'm off the original topic -sorry I don't know but does ring a bell.
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jorgy
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Post by jorgy »

nobudget wrote:The biggest problem in one-(wo)man shows is probably the lack of feedback. It gets harder and harder to have a fresh and semi-objective view of your own work. Most of those projects tend to get so personal it's almost impossible to get into the story as a viewer. And pacing is often clumsy. And of course time is a factor, if you work on one project for 10 years your skills and vision will have changed, should you go back and change older stuff, try to keep the same quality and therefor sacrifice new knowledge and technology or can you find a way to "upgrade" older material.
This is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. To get around this, while working on my "big" project, I haven't done any actual animation. Just brainstorming, character design, dialogue, music. I don't want to have to go back and re-animate since it seems like I'm getting better with the animation every day. A task that takes me 2 hours took two weeks before, and will probably take 30 mins in a few weeks. And in a large project over several years, it has to all be the same "style" or it won't gel as a coherent piece.
nobudget wrote:In any way, I think "building" a project in levels seems best. So instead of finishing scene by scene you lay the groundwork, the story, work out the characters, storyboarding, sound design and keep the animation itself as close as possible to the end of the project. Just think starting 10 years ago with Flash symbols and suddenly switching to Moho and in 3D the innovations are even faster.

Reindert.
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I have a Plan. It involves a series of shorter works, each progressively more challenging, and involving different aspects of animation and moho.

But to address the problems you mention, I think that extensive use of storyboards and animatics should help with the pacing.

I just wish there were more hours in the day to get work/home/hobbies all done.
LittleFenris
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Post by LittleFenris »

jorgy wrote:I have a Plan. It involves a series of shorter works, each progressively more challenging, and involving different aspects of animation and moho.
This is exactly the approach I'm taking. I am redesigning my website and using short simple character animations in the site. This will give me more experience with animation, plus more practice in Moho. After this I'll start on my more ambitious project (already have a story and a couple characters designed).

I just wish there were more hours in the day to get work/home/hobbies all done.
No kidding! Come on 36 hour day!
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jorgy
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Post by jorgy »

I've been thinking about how people who have a vision for a movie get it done. Particularly, I'm thinking about James Cameron and "Titanic". He had to work with two studios, tons of problems, budget issues, almost cancelled several times, but he had a vision and I believe that the vision is what we see on the screen.

Another example is Robert Rodriguez (Spy Kids (1,2,3D), Desperado, Once Upon a Time in Mexico, and now Sin City). My understanding is that he did most of his movies on a mac in his garage. However, the production values are still quite high. I've only seen a couple of his movies, but feel like he has used his determination to go from an independent moviemaker to a mainstream moviemaker, and still keep creative control.

Finally, is George Lucas. He is in a financial and ownership position that he controls every aspect of his movies. Granted, he doesn't do it by himself and has a staff of thousands, but the movies are truly his vision. And while it's good (the flying bee guy who "owned" Annakin and his mother) and bad (Jar Jar Binks), he sure can tell a story.

One interesting aspect of the last two is the amount of filming done in front of green screens. Both Sin City and Star Wars Episode III were filmed largely without sets, which were added in later.

I think that there is a renaissance of movie creation, both in 2d and 3d movies and as well as live-action films. And it all is due to technology. And while I don't have the resources of Industrial Light and Magic, or Dreamworks, I do have moho, and an idea.
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cribble
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Post by cribble »

I don't know wherever any of you would be interested in this (its a manga/anime style... i'm not exactly the worlds biggest fan of the genre), but i know theres a 12 hour feature length flash movie going around. the series is called Broken Saints.. i think this is the web site.

Its a strange style, because its done in a comic book style, so there really isn't alot of animation, but good story line and art work.
--Scott
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gochris
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Post by gochris »

Checkout Terrence Walker at
www.studioartfx.com

He's made 2-30 minute anime cartoons with Lightwave by himself.

While the cartoons aren't great, they're still better than any I ever made, since I haven't made any.

I believe the next breakthrough in 2-d will come from a small group of animators. Probably one guy would write the script and design the characters. Some artist like a comic book guy. And he could rig them too, I guess, and then using the web, could farm out sequences to animators all over the world. Say 10 animators who do 8 minutes each...

This is certainly very doable, if someone had the right amount of money.

Anyway, with great software like Moho available, a feature done by one person is inevitable. It's easier to do now than ever before.

Gochris
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jahnocli
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Post by jahnocli »

believe the next breakthrough in 2-d will come from a small group of animators. Probably one guy would write the script and design the characters. Some artist like a comic book guy. And he could rig them too, I guess, and then using the web, could farm out sequences to animators all over the world. Say 10 animators who do 8 minutes each...
This is already happening. Take a look at http://www.ninjai.com
Professional-looking, and the production is farmed out all over the world, I believe.

J
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
LittleFenris
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Post by LittleFenris »

gochris wrote:Checkout Terrence Walker at
www.studioartfx.com

He's made 2-30 minute anime cartoons with Lightwave by himself.

While the cartoons aren't great, they're still better than any I ever made, since I haven't made any.

Gochris
I actually bought the DVD that has "Understanding Chaos" and one other short on it that he made, and was less than impressed with either of them. I mean it's impressive one guy can do all that, but it really shows that one person did it. One person can do only so much and do it well. There are so many facets to a film that one person can't be great at them all, they maybe be "good" or "OK", but not great at them all (in 3D's case you have Modeling, Texturing, Lighting, Rigging, Animating, Rendering and Compositing). This is the reason Pixar and all the other big studios have so many people working for them. For talent and for times sake. Each person or grough specialized on ONE aspect of the process and does it great.
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jorgy
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Post by jorgy »

LittleFenris wrote:I actually bought the DVD that has "Understanding Chaos" and one other short on it that he made, and was less than impressed with either of them. I mean it's impressive one guy can do all that, but it really shows that one person did it. One person can do only so much and do it well. There are so many facets to a film that one person can't be great at them all, they maybe be "good" or "OK", but not great at them all (in 3D's case you have Modeling, Texturing, Lighting, Rigging, Animating, Rendering and Compositing). This is the reason Pixar and all the other big studios have so many people working for them. For talent and for times sake. Each person or grough specialized on ONE aspect of the process and does it great.
Do you feel that this is true of 2D as well as 3D animation?
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gochris
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Post by gochris »

Well I believe that Mr. Walker would be the first to say that his films are not up to the Pixar standard. But if he had let his lack of resources hold him back, his films wouldn't exist.

And he also made his movies in a month. Had he spent 2 months, I don't think his movies would be twice as good, but still I'm grateful that he did them at all. I learned a lot by watching Understanding Chaos, though truth be told, I didn't enjoy it much. Still, I look forward to what he comes out with next

I believe a solo animation artist can work. If single person comics exist, like Daniel Clowes or Seth, then solo artist animation could work, too. Would it compete with Pixar? No way. Is a solo R. Crumb comic as good as an art by committee Marvel comic? All in the eye of the beholder.

The solo animation artist would be able to make the kind of films that Pixar and Blue Sky can't make. Those studios have so much overhead that any films they make have to be giant crowd pleasing favorites. A solo artist wouldn't have to do that. He could delve into odd subjects and more personal stories.
As long as the artist can make a film for less than he can make showing it, it would be doable.

Cel animator Bill Plympton says "just go for it" and that's just what I'm going to do. I am a screenwriter and I hope to do a feature length cartoon along the lines of Batman the Animated series. I'm using a combination of Poser, Max, and Moho. I'm modeling in Max, rigging and animating in Poser, rendering as a toon render in Max, and doing special effects and other 2-D work in Moho. It won't be as good as The Incredibles, but it won't be Understanding Chaos either. But it will be mine. And after years of having to compromise my writing for others, with Moho and other software, I can finally make the films that I want to make. Will I collaborate? Sure, but Moho and these other programs mean that I don't have to compromise as I collaborate.

So the bottom line is that Walker and Bill Plympton show that a person can make a cartoon by themselves and still make a little money doing it. Not Pixar money. Not Dreamworks money. But enough money. I'm surprised it hasn't happened in the flash world already -- certainly it will in the next few years. I'm excited!

Gochris
LittleFenris
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Post by LittleFenris »

gochris wrote:Cel animator Bill Plympton says "just go for it" and that's just what I'm going to do. I am a screenwriter and I hope to do a feature length cartoon along the lines of Batman the Animated series. I'm using a combination of Poser, Max, and Moho. I'm modeling in Max, rigging and animating in Poser, rendering as a toon render in Max, and doing special effects and other 2-D work in Moho. It won't be as good as The Incredibles, but it won't be Understanding Chaos either. But it will be mine. And after years of having to compromise my writing for others, with Moho and other software, I can finally make the films that I want to make. Will I collaborate? Sure, but Moho and these other programs mean that I don't have to compromise as I collaborate.

Gochris
See, my biggest gripe with Walkers animes are the stories weren't very good, the cel shading and rendering really needed some work. I give him huge props for even attempting this stuff himself, but I still feel the efforts fell short. I don't think you should blame time as being a factor. He should have planned it out, saved up the right money to take the time he needed to make it the best he could. I also bought an independent movie made in Lightwave called "Kaze: Ghost Warrior" and wasn't all that impressed with it either. Both of them came down to less than perfect scripts. The look and feel of Kaze was good, animation was good, just the story needed to be polished and pacing really needed to be worked on. To me all these one man animations that I've seen really needed a bit of feedback from outsiders in the preproduction phase so the final product would have been that much better. Getting feedback to make the script better doesn't mean comprimising the "one man did it all" side of it.
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