Somebody Knows Something About Harmony/ CelAction??
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
It seems Celaction2d is used by lots of studios and has created animations that have won lots of awards.
http://www.celaction.com/newspage.html
Too bad they don´t have more info on the product - screen shots, etc.
http://www.celaction.com/newspage.html
Too bad they don´t have more info on the product - screen shots, etc.
Here we go:
http://www.biganimation.com/magazine/ne ... 8&zoneid=3
An article that talks about CelAction and even has a screenshot on the second page.
Brian
http://www.biganimation.com/magazine/ne ... 8&zoneid=3
An article that talks about CelAction and even has a screenshot on the second page.
Brian
Sometimes in order to accomplish something you need to not sleep.
Thanks for the article link!
From the article:
". The only way this is possible is because the system is totally based on the working methods of animators and constantly tweaked by Andy Blazdell who fully understands and appreciates the needs of the animator. The layout of the screen can be adjusted to differing work methods, allowing the animator to work with greater depth whilst keeping track of what is happening. A simple to use Dope Sheet sits neatly down the side of the screen and as one pupil said ‘as an animator, I immediately recognise where I am supposed to be’. It is very much a computer programme for the animator. Simple really.
"
Wish there was a way to get a demo or something.
From the article:
". The only way this is possible is because the system is totally based on the working methods of animators and constantly tweaked by Andy Blazdell who fully understands and appreciates the needs of the animator. The layout of the screen can be adjusted to differing work methods, allowing the animator to work with greater depth whilst keeping track of what is happening. A simple to use Dope Sheet sits neatly down the side of the screen and as one pupil said ‘as an animator, I immediately recognise where I am supposed to be’. It is very much a computer programme for the animator. Simple really.
"
Wish there was a way to get a demo or something.
...The same to meToontoonz wrote:Wish there was a way to get a demo or something.
, but seems one of that hidden programs for piraty fear/panic (same that Harmony?) ...Seems too that programers do a "customized" version of the program for each customer, and cause of this the software has a weird and selective kind of distribution, a pity... 
Last edited by Rai López on Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
I was looking for a new cut-out animation software a while back (and eventually found Moho) and contacted the CelAction-developers.
The don't have a demo version that you could try but rather they do face to face demos at festivals and trade shows and they offered to do a demo using Netmeeting.
The didn't have a showreel right then but one was in production so they might have one now you could get from them.
The price I was told was £3500UKP for one license. This was the basic Professional edition, you can get one tailor-made for your needs at a higher price I think.
you could also rent a license at £1550UKP for 6 months, or £2850UKP for 12 months.
Here's some links to production made with it;
www.cirkeline.dk (click the links to see the first 5 minutes of the film)
http://www.arte-tv.com/fr/cinema-fictio ... 00204.html
http://www.arte-tv.com/fr/cinema-fictio ... 71206.html
(Click on Haut Débit for high resolution, and Bas Débit for low resolution.)
http://www.2dtv.co.uk/pages/flash01.htm
http://www.2dtv.co.uk/pages/flash02.htm
Note that I haven't actually tried CelAction but I hope I could clear some questions anyway.
The don't have a demo version that you could try but rather they do face to face demos at festivals and trade shows and they offered to do a demo using Netmeeting.
The didn't have a showreel right then but one was in production so they might have one now you could get from them.
The price I was told was £3500UKP for one license. This was the basic Professional edition, you can get one tailor-made for your needs at a higher price I think.
you could also rent a license at £1550UKP for 6 months, or £2850UKP for 12 months.
Here's some links to production made with it;
www.cirkeline.dk (click the links to see the first 5 minutes of the film)
http://www.arte-tv.com/fr/cinema-fictio ... 00204.html
http://www.arte-tv.com/fr/cinema-fictio ... 71206.html
(Click on Haut Débit for high resolution, and Bas Débit for low resolution.)
http://www.2dtv.co.uk/pages/flash01.htm
http://www.2dtv.co.uk/pages/flash02.htm
Note that I haven't actually tried CelAction but I hope I could clear some questions anyway.
Celaction report
Sorry for digging this out, but if anybody is still interested...
I've done animation for a 20 min. feature in celaction. This was in 2003, so the app might have evolved slightly. We had a 3-day-training, directed by Andy Bladzell himself, and it took 1-2 weeks to get familiar with most aspects of the app.
Celaction is, as mentioned, basically a bone controlled animation tool for large throughput in big studios. They claim that a trained animator can make 10-15 secs of animation per day. (I didn't do that much...;-))
It is made for traditional animators, thus retaining a conservative look (e.g. with X-sheets) and even restrictions animators are used to. It leaves you lots of control over the animation process. For example, at default there is no automatic in-betweening because the animator is expected to set the keys manually. (Hobby animators are happy when the computer does as much of the animation work as possible, but an experienced animator mostly prefers to do the work himself.)
However, forcing inbetweening adds lots of keyframes so that you have to trash them when you want to change the timing. Not very flexible.
Regarding flexibility:
Celaction does not know flexible joints. You just map a layer, i.e. a leg, to a bone, which is of course a big disadvantage vs. moho.
Then, celaction lacks IK. You can reverse a bone hierarchy temporarily for walks etc., but all animation is done by rotation.
There are no painting/drawing tools, you are expected to deliver artwork via illustrator or Photoshop. (Which is a good idea!)
My personal opinion was mixed. First of all, there is no mac version (and is not even planned). Call me silly, but I have simply no fun working on a PC. It is like going to the office - when you were used to work in a loft. But this is getting off-topic.
Point #2 is related, though. The GUI is clumsy and operation is not very intuitive - exactly what my prejudiction expects from a PC app. ;-)
We were four animators on the project, and none of us was really happy with it. Advanced tools can save time, but require a steep learning curve.
On the other hand the display is very fast, preview in real-time even on older machines and it just lets you do your work clean and efficient.
There are tree views where you can control and access the hundreds of bones and joints which can occur in complex scenes...
I am just beginning with moho, so it is difficult to compare at the moment. Though it is a bit ridculous to compare products which differ by a factor of 50 in terms of cost, I am impressed with the abundance of features in moho.
The main drawback with moho at the moment is the poor import for vectorgraphics, combined with a very reduced toolset for drawing. We will see...
I've done animation for a 20 min. feature in celaction. This was in 2003, so the app might have evolved slightly. We had a 3-day-training, directed by Andy Bladzell himself, and it took 1-2 weeks to get familiar with most aspects of the app.
Celaction is, as mentioned, basically a bone controlled animation tool for large throughput in big studios. They claim that a trained animator can make 10-15 secs of animation per day. (I didn't do that much...;-))
It is made for traditional animators, thus retaining a conservative look (e.g. with X-sheets) and even restrictions animators are used to. It leaves you lots of control over the animation process. For example, at default there is no automatic in-betweening because the animator is expected to set the keys manually. (Hobby animators are happy when the computer does as much of the animation work as possible, but an experienced animator mostly prefers to do the work himself.)
However, forcing inbetweening adds lots of keyframes so that you have to trash them when you want to change the timing. Not very flexible.
Regarding flexibility:
Celaction does not know flexible joints. You just map a layer, i.e. a leg, to a bone, which is of course a big disadvantage vs. moho.
Then, celaction lacks IK. You can reverse a bone hierarchy temporarily for walks etc., but all animation is done by rotation.
There are no painting/drawing tools, you are expected to deliver artwork via illustrator or Photoshop. (Which is a good idea!)
My personal opinion was mixed. First of all, there is no mac version (and is not even planned). Call me silly, but I have simply no fun working on a PC. It is like going to the office - when you were used to work in a loft. But this is getting off-topic.
Point #2 is related, though. The GUI is clumsy and operation is not very intuitive - exactly what my prejudiction expects from a PC app. ;-)
We were four animators on the project, and none of us was really happy with it. Advanced tools can save time, but require a steep learning curve.
On the other hand the display is very fast, preview in real-time even on older machines and it just lets you do your work clean and efficient.
There are tree views where you can control and access the hundreds of bones and joints which can occur in complex scenes...
I am just beginning with moho, so it is difficult to compare at the moment. Though it is a bit ridculous to compare products which differ by a factor of 50 in terms of cost, I am impressed with the abundance of features in moho.
The main drawback with moho at the moment is the poor import for vectorgraphics, combined with a very reduced toolset for drawing. We will see...
-
Andy Blazdell
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:13 pm
- Contact:
Someone said you guys were talking about me here, so I thought I'd come by and say hi!
Since 2003, CelAction2D has evolved a lot, and all of Box's issues with the program have been addressed in one way or another. Two years is a long time in software development! Except there still won't be a Mac version, so I fear Box will never be a fan of ours.
I should also point out that the film Box worked on went on to win at least 5 prizes at international festivals, so it worked out okay in the end!
Anyway, this isn't my forum, I'm not going to get into a discussion here, and I'm sure if anyone wants to know more information about our software they can just come over to our website or drop us an email, we'll be happy to talk to them.
Andy Blazdell
CelAction
Since 2003, CelAction2D has evolved a lot, and all of Box's issues with the program have been addressed in one way or another. Two years is a long time in software development! Except there still won't be a Mac version, so I fear Box will never be a fan of ours.
I should also point out that the film Box worked on went on to win at least 5 prizes at international festivals, so it worked out okay in the end!
Anyway, this isn't my forum, I'm not going to get into a discussion here, and I'm sure if anyone wants to know more information about our software they can just come over to our website or drop us an email, we'll be happy to talk to them.
Andy Blazdell
CelAction
Uh! Oh! Hi Andy! If I knew you would pop up here, I would'nt have been so... direct! 
Well, maybe I should have studied your actual feature list before posting. To defend myself: at least I mentioned that my knowledge is slightly outdated, and - your website is not very descriptive. I know you prefer personal contact, but what about some screenshots at least?
And yes, the result was very convincing! It has been a real pleasure to work with an artist like Phil.
Well, maybe I should have studied your actual feature list before posting. To defend myself: at least I mentioned that my knowledge is slightly outdated, and - your website is not very descriptive. I know you prefer personal contact, but what about some screenshots at least?
And yes, the result was very convincing! It has been a real pleasure to work with an artist like Phil.
Jaja, DEFINITELY we were not SO mad, there was 
spys 
(but even you are here very WELCOMED too) ...HI! 
How can i purchase ANIMO and how much does it cost?
I am unable to get this info from kellener.com ...
Also is here someone in this forum experienced with this software and can recommend it?
I took a look at the official demo and i must admit this seems to be a very heavy and powerful piece of software.
Another thing i'd like to know: Is a scanner absolutely required or can i draw with a tablet in program?
I am thinking of buying it... SO, i'd be glad to get some answers.
Cheers
I am unable to get this info from kellener.com ...
Also is here someone in this forum experienced with this software and can recommend it?
I took a look at the official demo and i must admit this seems to be a very heavy and powerful piece of software.
Another thing i'd like to know: Is a scanner absolutely required or can i draw with a tablet in program?
I am thinking of buying it... SO, i'd be glad to get some answers.
Cheers
??? why did they do that? and how is the animation done now with animo? frame-by-frame?? *confused* i thought the bones were the big advantage!??Ramón López wrote:Animo, yes... I was very interested in this piece of software untill they abandoned definitely the Bone system module/feature, a pity
Noooo, i will never find the software of my dreams
I wish CelAction had a better website.
Show some screen shots of the software in action, more information.
Show some clips that were made with the software (I could only find thumbnails of a few things.) In general difficult to navigate around the site.
From what I have read at other websites CelAction seems interesting, expensive and they don´t seem to cater to independent animators - just studios. Seems from the news sections it is used by animations that were quite successful.
No demo, no screenshots just text descriptions. Probably a great product, you wouldn´t know it from what you see at the website.
Did I say no demo?
(From website:
"Is there an evaluation version of CelAction2D available?
Not for public download, but if you are a production company or filmmaker with a proven track record we can arrange a special demonstration. Contact us for details.")
No demo, but then CelAction doesn't seem to be going after the solo animator.
------------
Just went through the 30-day demo of the new ToonBoom Solo software.
(Why they have a 30-day time limit when the files watermarked, have other limits on them and can´t be use anywhere else I do not know.)
What an excercise in frustration - just about the worst software I have ever seen. Unbelievably complicated (took me over an hour just to figure out how to draw something on the screen - then it crashed when I tried to render it as a QT movie), seemingly tougher learning curve than Maya (I can do Maya, couldn´t figure out Solo). Not good instructions or examples or forum. Crashed a lot. And they want $3,000 for it.
Show some screen shots of the software in action, more information.
Show some clips that were made with the software (I could only find thumbnails of a few things.) In general difficult to navigate around the site.
From what I have read at other websites CelAction seems interesting, expensive and they don´t seem to cater to independent animators - just studios. Seems from the news sections it is used by animations that were quite successful.
No demo, no screenshots just text descriptions. Probably a great product, you wouldn´t know it from what you see at the website.
Did I say no demo?
(From website:
"Is there an evaluation version of CelAction2D available?
Not for public download, but if you are a production company or filmmaker with a proven track record we can arrange a special demonstration. Contact us for details.")
No demo, but then CelAction doesn't seem to be going after the solo animator.
------------
Just went through the 30-day demo of the new ToonBoom Solo software.
(Why they have a 30-day time limit when the files watermarked, have other limits on them and can´t be use anywhere else I do not know.)
What an excercise in frustration - just about the worst software I have ever seen. Unbelievably complicated (took me over an hour just to figure out how to draw something on the screen - then it crashed when I tried to render it as a QT movie), seemingly tougher learning curve than Maya (I can do Maya, couldn´t figure out Solo). Not good instructions or examples or forum. Crashed a lot. And they want $3,000 for it.