toon boom versus anime studio

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redstorm
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toon boom versus anime studio

Post by redstorm » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:54 am

Hi:
I just watched mulan 2 and was impressed to see at the end credits that the movie was made using toon boom.
I was very impressed with this, as toon boom is very easy to acquire. I really wanna make movies like mulan,
but I think anime studio is good enough for this. Even if anime studio cannot tackle mulan I still rather use it
than toon boom. My anime studio is installed and working and I am very happy with it.
Stupid question: can anime studio make animation like in mulan ?
I appreciate you all, very much.
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slowtiger
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Re: toon boom versus anime studio

Post by slowtiger » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:59 pm

It's not a matter of software, it's only a matter of your abilities, and time.
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Re: toon boom versus anime studio

Post by hayasidist » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:38 pm

Like slowtiger said and … given what you said here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32439&p=185195#p185181 - it's probably worth sticking with your AS8 for a while rather than buying a new TB licence -- even the entry level version.

And, whilst the team making Mulan 2 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0279967/fu ... cl_sm#cast ) may well have used TB, they'll also have used other software as well.

I'd suggest that for someone looking to do the whole process, from idea through to published video, with just one piece of software, AS / Moho is a good choice (better than TB?!) But many of us here use Moho as part of a workflow that includes such as drawing packages and video editors -- there are some things that are better done with more specialist software.
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Greenlaw
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Re: toon boom versus anime studio

Post by Greenlaw » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:06 am

Toon Boom or Moho: I think it depends on the type of animation you want to do, FBF or puppet.

IMO, Moho is an excellent puppet animation program but it's a bit weak for creating FBF, and TB is an excellent FBF program but its puppet rigging is not as capable as Moho. Where I work, we create both types of animation, so we use both of these programs (along with Adobe Animate and After Effects,) and sometimes we may use multiple programs in a single scene.

Can Moho be used to animate 'Mulan' style? Since Mulan was mostly animated using FBF techniques, my quick answer is 'not easily'. Moho's puppet rigs are certainly capable of animation that looks like FBF but I don't think that's the best use of this program. Moho does come with a native FBF system but it's still pretty primitive. I think the FBF tools are okay for simple stuff but if you intend to create a lot of complex FBF animation, you should use a dedicated FBF program. TB is one program for this, but there are other good ones like TVPaint and Adobe Animate (formerly called Flash). If you're on a budget, look into OpenToonz and Krita...these can be downloaded and used for free. Any of these programs work well for creating FBF image sequences for Moho.

If you decide to go with a hybrid workflow (Moho + an FBF animation program + a 3D animation program) like what I do in much of my personal and professional work, you'll want to get a good compositing program too. I like using Fusion and After Effects for personal projects, and at my workplace I use After Effects. (Back when I was an artist in the Box at Rhythm & Hues, I used Fusion for compositing.)

So which compositing package to choose? AE is a more familiar workflow for many 2D artists to understand because it's layer based. You can think of it as Photoshop with individually animateable layers. (That's an understatement but it works.) If you have an Adobe CC subscription, you get AE along with Animate (for FBF), Photoshop, Illustrator, and other useful production tools like Audition and Premiere.

Fusion is a powerful nodes based compositor, which may seem intimidating at first but it's actually a more flexible and efficient compositing system than working with layers and precomps. If you're on a budget, Fusion comes in a free version that has most of the paid version's features. If you can afford it, the full version of Fusion is well worth the cost. Back when I first started using Fusion, it cost $5k, but BMD now sells it for under $300, which is a real bargain!

There's also Hitfilm but I don't have much experience with this program. (I do use the Hitfilm plugins in AE though.)

If you use Moho with a compositing program, be sure to learn how to use Moho's Layer Comps system and Moho Exporter. These two work together with a single button click to render passes for programs like AE. I use it nearly every day.
Last edited by Greenlaw on Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:11 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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herbert123
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Re: toon boom versus anime studio

Post by herbert123 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:23 pm

redstorm wrote:Hi:
I just watched mulan 2 and was impressed to see at the end credits that the movie was made using toon boom.
Mulan 2 is drawn frame by frame. Probably scanned in, cleaned up, and coloured in what was Toon Boom back in 2004. It's called a paper-based workflow. The software was used to speed up the cleaning up, colouring, and overall production workflow.

Don't forget Mulan 2 came out in 2004, which means they were using a TB version from 15 years ago!

Studio Ghibli made the transition to an identical paper-based workflow using Toonz (Spirited Away was produced with the help of Toonz). The open sourced version OpenToonz was used in a paper-based workflow for last year's Mary and the Witch's Flower.

Again, the animators draw and animate on paper, and the line drawings are then scanned, cleaned up, and coloured in the software. Backgrounds are painted (either traditionally or by digital painting), effects are added in OpenToonz, scrolling backgrounds, and so on, and so forth. In short, the software is used to speed up the entire animation process, but the raw drawings are still mostly done by manual labourious frame by frame animation.

Anyway, If you want to be impressed by something, be impressed by the animators, not the software, in these cases.

PS What did you think of Mulan 2? I haven't seen it, since it was ripped to shreds by just about anyone who saw it.
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Greenlaw
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Re: toon boom versus anime studio

Post by Greenlaw » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:32 pm

herbert123 wrote:Anyway, If you want to be impressed by something, be impressed by the animators, not the software...
Oh, yeah...good point! I meant to close with something like that but got totally sidetracked by talking about the software. :D

Yes, animation programs, (as well as traditional paper and pencil,) are just tools for creating animation. Some tools make certain animation tasks easier than other tools (as described earlier,) but none of these tools create 'good' animation by themselves.

That's up to the artist and the artist's personal vision. And persistence. And lots of coffee.
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Re: toon boom versus anime studio

Post by chucky » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:08 pm

Greenlaw wrote:
herbert123 wrote:Anyway, If you want to be impressed by something, be impressed by the animators, not the software...
Oh, yeah...good point! I meant to close with something like that but got totally sidetracked by talking about the software. :D

Yes, animation programs, (as well as traditional paper and pencil,) are just tools for creating animation. Some tools make certain animation tasks easier than other tools (as described earlier,) but none of these tools create 'good' animation by themselves.

That's up to the artist and the artist's personal vision. And persistence. And lots of coffee.
Back in the day toon boom was, as herbert says used for digital colouring more than anything else.
Certainly it is good for FBF but Mulan required many experienced artists and storytellers and a lot of time and money.
Even a couple of minutes of that quality would take one person a long time and without training and experience, even that would be challenging.
I admire your ambition, just keep a cool head and bite off a little at a time.
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