My 1st try at fire and water

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sbtamu
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Post by sbtamu » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:38 pm

Thanks all for the help I really do appreciate it as I have learned a lot over the last 2 months since I started this thread.

neeters_guy, I will Google that guy and see if I can read up on some of his ideas.

Again, Thanks a ton guys/gals. :D :D :D
Sorry for bad animation

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sbtamu
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Post by sbtamu » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:18 pm

fracturedray wrote:The clouds in the second picture are my vote.

I don't use Gimp but I'm sure there is a way to make a layer with alpha. That way you wouldn't get the white halo around the clouds and fire.

Is there a way?

My one suggestion it that you use the two clouds colors together. The one on the right you use to be on the side close to the sun. The one on the left you use on the side away from the sun.

Are you going to be able to mix these colors with the animated clouds you had?
Oh I see what you are talking about. The white that looks like its part of the new clouds are in fact the old animated ones in a layer behind the new clouds. I thought I would leave them in there to give the sky some movement.
Sorry for bad animation

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lwaxana
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Post by lwaxana » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:59 am

It's looking great! As finishing touches, I'd adjust the shadow under Willy and behind the bottle and make them soft edged and lighter so they fit in the scene more.

About my waterfall comment long long ago, ;D this is what I was trying to get at:
Image
It would add some nice drama if the camera was below the waterfall pointed up, like you had it before, but you would first see only the top of his head, then more and more from the top of his head downward because the edge of the waterfall would block him less and less from our view as he gets closer to the edge.
sbtamu
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Post by sbtamu » Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:08 am

lwaxana wrote:It's looking great! As finishing touches, I'd adjust the shadow under Willy and behind the bottle and make them soft edged and lighter so they fit in the scene more.

About my waterfall comment long long ago, ;D this is what I was trying to get at:
Image
It would add some nice drama if the camera was below the waterfall pointed up, like you had it before, but you would first see only the top of his head, then more and more from the top of his head downward because the edge of the waterfall would block him less and less from our view as he gets closer to the edge.
I am glad you pointed this out lwaxana, the water fall scene (scene 5) is nothing near what I 1st posted, I'll post the new one in a week or 2. The Willy camp scene is this, minus I still need to draw the grass and bushes and some fishing gear.

Image
Sorry for bad animation

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Post by sbtamu » Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:20 am

ok i broke down, here is preview of scene 5.

Image

Its far from ready but...
Sorry for bad animation

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Post by sbtamu » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:00 am

Here is what I've done over the last few weeks. Please feel free to point out anything you would change.

Image
Sorry for bad animation

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jahnocli
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Post by jahnocli » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:36 am

The mixture of styles is a little disturbing. The realistic depiction of the sea, the semi-realistic sky, and the mostly cartoon-style foreground is uncomfortable to look at, at least for me. The composition is also confusing -- there's no natural focus. I assume it should be on the guy lying down, but there is no compositional device leading the eye to him. In my mind I compare it unfavourably (compositionally) to that Dounier Rousseau painting of the lion and the guy sleeping. There, even with a lion in the picture, your focus is still on the sleeping man.
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
gleeful
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Post by gleeful » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:56 pm

I have been enjoying your progress and was amazed to see the latest version. Very colorful!

I think the composition could be strengthened if the top edge of the main character did not look like a continuation of the water's edge. By dropping the character down (or forward) just a very small amount he might become the center of attention.

Currently his contour merges with the contour of the water or sand. This drains the power of his image into the surrounding objects and scenery. I always check my compositions for such "visual run-ons" and make sure that if they do occur, they are on purpose.

By moving the character down just a bit this very busy composition will also be a little quieter.

The character's hat is the same color as the foreground plants. This makes it hard to find him. Also the small amount of the log that is above his hat brim is confusing. Is it more log or just beard? Hard to tell. I would try removing that small shape and see if the overall image is strengthened.

Keep it up. I love how the sky and water have evolved and look forward to future improvements.
What if?
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fracturedray
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Post by fracturedray » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:34 pm

Given the amount of work here and how much you have learn I'd suggest calling it done and start on something new.

At the very least take a two month break from this one and look at it with a fresh pair of eyes then.

Things I recommend for the next project/scene.

Decide on a firm standard for how the scene will be made.
Examples:
1. Simply shapes and colors fills no shade no outlines.
2. Simply shapes and color fills with black outlines and no shade/shadows.
3. Painted images imported as png.
4. Shapes, flat shade/shadows and color with black outlines.
5. Shapes, flat shade/shadows and color with color outlines.
6. Textured shapes no outlines.
7. Textured shapes with outlines.
etc etc

Since you are learning I'd recommend sticking with 1 or 2 to begin with. These will help you get the hardest part done, the design and layout. It will also be the easiest to tweak.

Do several scene this way and see how you will be better and better with practice.

Once you've done a good amount then you can go back the the basic versions, make tweaks as needed and then if you want start adding more flavor such as shadows and lighting.

With lighting again, start with the basics. Use flat lighting, no blur in the shade or shadows.

During all of this I recommend you do some pencil drawings of still life. But keep it simple. An egg in a white bowl on a white plate. Study how the light and shadows are cast. It may sound dull but I have some awesome drawings from studies like this and it helped me understand lighting better this way.

Also look at other people's art and see what works well. Take Parker's back grounds for instance. He has done a lot of backgrounds and many of them are very basic with shapes, color and a little bit of texture. If the design is good you can do a lot with very little.
http://www.coroflot.com/public/individu ... lty=12&c=1&
Hi animation world.
sbtamu
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Post by sbtamu » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:52 am

Thanks very much to every one for helping me.

I think I may have not posted on this forum of what I was trying to do. The rest of the short is the typical style we all see on Youtube. This scene is just a 10 second shot that is used a few times in the short when Willy (the guy on the beach) is dreaming of what he would rather be doing other than sitting in jail or running from the sheriff (the Fat Man.) I Just thought that maybe I would give my best try at trying to make "the shock shot" as best as I could and totally contrast my usual style.

I hope everyone understands that I am not trying to do a complete short in this style. But I do want to make this 10 seconds as best as I can. I kind of got the idea from two movies. South Park's the movie when Kenny falls to hell and we see the realistic fire and from Beavis and Butthead the movie when they eat the mushrooms in the desert and the next scene is more realistic fire and sky.

Again, thanks for all the help and patients.

Stephen

here is a 3 sec vid of the dream

There is no focus point. I want the viewer to look at the fire, the waves, the sky, the fire flies. Its the viewers choice and what ever catches their eye. I want the viewer to have their choice as what to look at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VFp84WwKEY
Sorry for bad animation

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fracturedray
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Post by fracturedray » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:40 am

That is fine I can respect that. I just thought it would help if you took a small break and come back at it later.

suggestions...
To tweak what you have... lighting lighting lighting
Image

Look at photos of sun sets you will see that a lot of things like the tall grass is a silhouette and maybe the edges are bright but not always.

Because the sun is so low your main light source of light will be the fire. Fire is pure light. It glows...

I'll work on a fire effect and do a how to doc on it. I think you could have really impressive fire effects with AS with just a few tricks.
Hi animation world.
sbtamu
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Post by sbtamu » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:26 pm

Ray,

that looks awesome and is what I was trying to do. With that look you created I can call the scene done.

I agree gleeful, I'll move willy down and maybe make the water flow on top of the sand when I get back to this project.

Jay has suggested I need to leave this project alone for awhile which I gladly will do for my sanity. I might make some more running water or monster machine type stuff where quality takes a back seat to the humor.

Thanks

Stephen
Sorry for bad animation

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