A question about the Freehand Tool and outlines

Neillydubh · Post by **Neillydubh** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:51 pm

Hi guys,
Been using Anime Studio for a couple of years now. Using it to produce a cartoon series for BBC TV. Really like using it but have a few niggles with it, one of which I'd appreciate some feedback on. I'm currently on version 6 and am looking to upgrade soon, very curious to know if this issue has been fixed or not in version 7. I haven't noticed any other posts about this so has anyone else actually noticed this or find it a problem?

This thing happens only with the freehand tool which I use 99% of the time for drawing shapes. A duplicate line is added once the object is created from a freehand shape. This can be seen in the random shape examples I've drawn out below. This duplicate line has no obvious purpose that I can discern but I might be wrong about that.

Removing this extra line takes a couple of clicks/actions but when you multiply that by the dozens (sometimes hundreds) of objects that I might draw in a scene this actually becomes quite a lot of work. Worse, the changing of outline colours can leave a duplicate line which results in an artifact or different coloured outline appearing around the outside of an object which isn't evident until the scene is rendered - doesn't always appear but can make a render look really bad when it does. I've spent many many hours over the course of the past year and a half going through scenes to delete these extraneous lines.

I'm very curious to know...
1. If this has been fixed in version 7?
2. Does anyone else has a problem with this? Hasn't been mentioned in this forum I think so maybe not.
3. Whether it's actually of any use and has been deliberately programmed in?
4. Is there a simple way to avoid this without using the autoclose option (which doesn't allow many freehand lines to be made into an object) and without resorting to using the vector tool (which I can't do).

Good software design is about eliminating keystrokes or actions, this seems to add unecessary work. I sent an email to Support about it but never got a response (which was just a wee bit disappointing).

This is my biggest issue with this programme because it costs me time but I do really enjoy using AnimeStudio otherwise because it gives me great results and is nice and easy to use. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this duplicate line thing if you have a spare moment.

Cheers
NeillyDubh

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Hm, which options are checked on top of the project window while you draw?

sbtamu · Post by **sbtamu** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:40 pm

It seems you are making the outline and the fill as 2 different shapes and this would cause the line (edge) to still be on top even if you lowered the fill. To prevent this you can select auto fill and auto stroke so they will move lower together.

Or after you lower the fill you can select the line and lower it the same way you do for the fill.

Stephen.

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:48 pm

I've never experienced this but Stephen, it's obviously creating two shapes - one only an outline, as when he deletes the extra outline the remaining shape still has an outline - i've never known 'auto fill/auto outline' to create two different shapes...

Are you maybe drawing with auto outline on, then using the paint bucket - or creating a fill shape? there two operations will result in 2 shapes, one with outline and fill, the other with the original 'auto fill'...

I just tried in AS6 and couldn't repeat your problem UNLESS i do the above as follows:

draw with 'auto outline' only
use the paintbucket with 'both' selected (THIS IS DEFAULT so maybe this is your problem?)

if you auto fill/auto stroke and dont use the paint bucket or manually create a shape you should never have this problem - or if you ARE doing the above, make sure the piant bucket is set to 'fill only' (same with creating a new shape fill if you do it manuall with the create shape tool.

sbtamu · Post by **sbtamu** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:12 pm

AH, yes, I did not notice that the edge changed back to black. I'll go back and see if i can reproduce this.

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:05 pm

just to add:
the reason you CAN do this is so that you can put an outline behind a different shape to it's own fill (slip another shape between a shapes outline and fill in other words) but because you're doing this unwittingly it seems like a bug

(there isn't a straight forward way to do this by mistake - the only way is to fill the same shape twice, once with ouline only, once with fill

using this to your advantage really is quite clever:

on the left is what you'd expect with either top or bottom shape on top

on the right, i've indepedantly moved the outline of the bottom shape to the bottom of the stack creating a clean fill made of two shapes with a standard oultine who's stroke thickness can be controlled as normal.

Neillydubh · Post by **Neillydubh** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:21 pm

Thanks for the responses. It's very interesting that this doesn't appear to be a common complaint....

Slowtiger: I have the autoweld and autostroke options selected. I never use autoclose or autofill.

Sbtamu: I create the shape, then select it and press the spacebar to create the object. I never use the autoclose as I seldom use a single stroke to create the outline, maybe 2 or 3 in some cases which I have to select together to create the outline I want.

Funksmaname: I never use the paint bucket, always the select shape and spacebar. I find the paintbucket doesn't work very well if you have two or three separate objects overlapping, it seems to get confused. I wondered if there is an application for this, which you cleverly noted down, I may look at that but think it could be a potential headache with a complex object. I can't see any other way of creating a shape using more than one stroke that fits the way I work.

This also occurs if you create a shape then draw lines within it to break up the shape into areas that can be individually coloured. So again it's something I avoid doing now although it'd be a nice thing to be able to do if it worked simply.

Perhaps I need to relook at my process for drawing objects....

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:10 pm

Autostroke will create a stroke, as it says. When you create a shape on top of that, it's most likely that you create a fill and a stroke - which adds up to 2 strokes on the same curve.

Try your workflow with autostroke OFF.

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:29 pm

that's what i said - only in far more words and probably less clearly

As an aside, you might want to install Fazeks tools (the workflows offered by his tools are MUCH better than the original tools, his shape select doesn't get as confused as the original tool... i reccomend you try them...

Neillydubh · Post by **Neillydubh** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:26 am

I'll try that Slowtiger. I do like to see a solid line after I've drawn it but I will give it a go and see, thanks.

Funksmaname, I had a look at your intermediate shape stacking technique clip, very interesting, I'll definitely look at that further. Very useful and clever stuff too.

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:44 am

that's most deffinately your problem

you are creating a fill with outline after already having an outline... live without auto stroke, i often create all my shapes before i start filling any of them anyhow...