Moho Forum

Very basic tutorial on how to add a little bounce to your female characters.

I'm at work where YouTube is blocked, but even without seeing the tutorial, I'm pretty sure I can say with relative certainty that this is the greatest and most helpful tutorial that has ever been devised.

Haven't seen one of those in a long time!


Floppy disks. I haven't seen a floppy disk in a long time, like in the intro.
What were you thinking?

Good job on the tutorial.

Oh dear ... when was the last time you touched real breasts? And if you so broadly animate breasts, why restrict them with a bra?

I'm sorry, but this isn't really helpful.

slowtiger wrote:Oh dear ... when was the last time you touched real breasts? And if you so broadly animate breasts, why restrict them with a bra?
I'm sorry, but this isn't really helpful.

I Agree. Plus I don't like the idea of a new contribution to sexism in form of a funny tutorial.

Maybe I should get into details more.

1. The character itself isn't created from reality. It is copied from all those badly drawn/designed "characters" which inhabit video games and bad cartoons. Sy why spend so much time to adjust some shadow under a "breast" which isn't remotely realistic in the first place?

2. Is the breast movement really the Number One Feature of this character? Doesn't she talk? Act? Show emotions? Oh, she doesn't serve any other purpose to just come in and jiggle her breasts? That's sexism.

3. I didn't get any hint that this was maybe supposed to be ironic. Even if so, it's a hopeless attempt. See "Drawn together" for a show which utilizes clichées about breasts in an intelligent, non-insulting and fun way.

4. If you absolutely must animate breasts, why not choose a real topic with them? Like the ban of plain normal natural breasts in the USA, in real life as well as on TV or facebook, leading to absurd or humiliating situations for breast-feeding mothers or breast cancer awareness supporters? I can think of a dozen possible stories for a good animated short with an interesting and meaningful subject.

How about the nonsense of breast surgery for teenagers?
How about the craziness of gigantic augmented tits?
How about a single nipple dominating TV news for weeks, while everything important gets silenced? (Think White House officials pressing an "Emergency Nipple" button eachtime they need to cover up.)

How about some TSA goons discussing the "realness" of moving breasts of female passengers parading in font of them? Hey, this could be an instant youtube hit! Combine male puberty talk and lack of real life experience with their power and obvious abuse of it, while making a great commentary about the reality of different body types and why no breast shape or movement is anybody else's business, and how absurd it is to let machines decide which movement are "suspicious", machines which are constructed and funded by men who would run from any real breast? Now THAT would be a clever topic.

slowtiger wrote:Oh dear ... when was the last time you touched real breasts? And if you so broadly animate breasts, why restrict them with a bra?

I'm sorry, but this isn't really helpful.

My wife's the other day.

And if she didn't have a bra on then certain people would flip out even more.

And of course it isn't helpful to you, it's for beginners. A mere starting point.

selgin wrote:

slowtiger wrote:Oh dear ... when was the last time you touched real breasts? And if you so broadly animate breasts, why restrict them with a bra?
I'm sorry, but this isn't really helpful.

I Agree. Plus I don't like the idea of a new contribution to sexism in form of a funny tutorial.

I apologize. The intent wasn't to offend.

"Sexism: Sexism or gender discrimination is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex and may include the belief that a person of one sex is intrinsically superior to a person of the other."

I don't really understand how we were sexist.

You can say we objectified her, I guess, but there was no ill intent.

We are both married and terrified of our wives. That's the opposite of sexism, isn't it?

slowtiger wrote:Maybe I should get into details more.

1. The character itself isn't created from reality. It is copied from all those badly drawn/designed "characters" which inhabit video games and bad cartoons. So why spend so much time to adjust some shadow under a "breast" which isn't remotely realistic in the first place?

I'll work on my artwork. And of course it's not real.

2. Is the breast movement really the Number One Feature of this character? Doesn't she talk? Act? Show emotions? Oh, she doesn't serve any other purpose to just come in and jiggle her breasts? That's sexism.

I designed and rigged the character to demonstrate a SIMPLE technique for BEGINNERS to add a little bounce to female breasts. I had no other intentions with the design/rig. And why is that sexist? We did a tutorial on how to make a character run and walk. Is that now offensive to people without legs?

3. I didn't get any hint that this was maybe supposed to be ironic. Even if so, it's a hopeless attempt. See "Drawn together" for a show which utilizes clichées about breasts in an intelligent, non-insulting and fun way.

I don't know what you are referring to. This isn't art, it's just a basic tutorial.

4. If you absolutely must animate breasts, why not choose a real topic with them? Like the ban of plain normal natural breasts in the USA, in real life as well as on TV or facebook, leading to absurd or humiliating situations for breast-feeding mothers or breast cancer awareness supporters? I can think of a dozen possible stories for a good animated short with an interesting and meaningful subject.

How about the nonsense of breast surgery for teenagers?
How about the craziness of gigantic augmented tits?
How about a single nipple dominating TV news for weeks, while everything important gets silenced? (Think White House officials pressing an "Emergency Nipple" button eachtime they need to cover up.)

How about some TSA goons discussing the "realness" of moving breasts of female passengers parading in font of them? Hey, this could be an instant youtube hit! Combine male puberty talk and lack of real life experience with their power and obvious abuse of it, while making a great commentary about the reality of different body types and why no breast shape or movement is anybody else's business, and how absurd it is to let machines decide which movement are "suspicious", machines which are constructed and funded by men who would run from any real breast? Now THAT would be a clever topic.

All good ideas, but why would this be spoken about during an instructional tutorial?

Danimal wrote:I'm at work where YouTube is blocked, but even without seeing the tutorial, I'm pretty sure I can say with relative certainty that this is the greatest and most helpful tutorial that has ever been devised.

Thanks. But you're in the minority apparently.

heyvern wrote:Haven't seen one of those in a long time!


Floppy disks. I haven't seen a floppy disk in a long time, like in the intro.
What were you thinking?

Good job on the tutorial.

Thanks.

The floppy drive/disks was Chad's idea. He has a fascination with old tech.

Maybe that's why he's friends with me.

Yikes! Dudes!

As a participant in marketing and advertising for a few decades... uh... er... sex sells dudes!
I like breasts, and if they bounce I may actually pay closer attention.

Some of you I think may fall into the "Thou doth protest too much" arena. All boys or men, draw... women... at some point in their lives, even without artistic skills. To improve the realism of those endeavors someone must teach us how to "jiggle the jugs" easily and effectively... so we can get it done more quickly and move on to other projects.



p.s. PC be dammed... jiggly breasts are awesome. "Thanks for the mammaries".

heyvern wrote:Yikes! Dudes!

As a participant in marketing and advertising for a few decades... uh... er... sex sells dudes!
I like breasts, and if they bounce I may actually pay closer attention.

Some of you I think may fall into the "Thou doth protest too much" arena. All boys or men, draw... women... at some point in their lives, even without artistic skills. To improve the realism of those endeavors someone must teach us how to "jiggle the jugs" easily and effectively... so we can get it done more quickly and move on to other projects.



p.s. PC be dammed... jiggly breasts are awesome. "Thanks for the mammaries".

Thanks for adding some sanity to this thread

I just wanted to note that our goal here is to create tutorials that people want. We constantly receive feedback and requests and believe it or not, this is one of those lessons that came up. It's also pretty popular right now. Yes, it could be argued that's because it's about breasts. But I also honestly believe people are learning a lot from the tutorial.

Due to the controversy, I did write up an official statement of sorts. For anyone that's interested, feel free to check it out here: http://www.troftgruben.com/2013/12/abou ... orial.html

And again, we're continually getting new ideas and requests. If you are unhappy about the direction our tutorials are going, give us some ideas. We will gladly take them into consideration as we expand our content.

While I think some suggestions are a little heavy handed given that you are not creating animations, but teaching meachnics - I do think that as 'teachers' you have a certain responsibility. If you get a lot of requests on how to animate breasts, imho your best response would be to teach the broad mechanics of how breasts might move - not necessarily even using breasts as an example.

You could have easily used the same example to make hair bounce, and just mention that the same mechanics could be used for breasts, but you chose the most exploitative route to simply get cheap views... which is of course your choice - except I would imagine it could work against your credibility as mentors past adolescent boys. More mature audiences seriously seeking tuition will cringe away from this, as a simple tutorial has really become unnecessarily NSFW.

I've no doubt it has resulted in a spike of interest on your tutorials, and if that's all that matters then great. Also if an artist; be it Jim, one of your students or anyone else chooses to create this style of objectified character they have the freedom to do so - I just think, in this case, as mentors to both young boys AND GIRLS who might be seeking to learn how to animate, you've sort of missed the mark and are perpetuating stereotypes we should really try to move on from.

I think this is a helpful tutorial because it talks about bone dynamics which I've not used yet. I flinched when you said "We are men, so we like some things bigger than others', I imagine a women with small breasts might feel a little put down by that remark, I don't actually mind the idea of you doing a tutorial specifically about animating breasts as that is a legitimate thing to achieve in an animated character with noticeably large breasts. But just a little more sensitivity and less jocular when introducing the subject. Women animate too, and they are probably a lot less sensitive, and probably not offended at all, but still, with this subject you need to be more careful, that's all.