Road map for Moho

[arglborps]

I would rather pay a monthly subscription for Moho instead of $399.
As long as it's not too high.

Subscription would be the day I’d abandon Moho.
I stopped using Adobe as soon as they started subscription (and I'm actually happier with Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher now)

If you rent your software, everything that you create with it, you don't own either.
As soon as you stop your subscription you'll lose access to all your source files.
For creative software subscriptions are evil.

[Hoptoad]

If Moho cost $8.34/month, that would be nearly exactly $100/year. Paying $8.34 per month would take 4 years to surpass $399.99, the current price of Moho.
Four...years.
Of course, the subscription could be more than that, or less.

Regardless, I think Moho's current price tag ($399.99) is a huge obstacle preventing new people from giving it a shot. Especially young people with little money to spare.

What about Moho Debut? It's cheap, sure. But plenty of people won't use stripped-down versions of software. This is because people have learned that a lot of stripped-down versions of software are designed to be annoying. Companies do this on purpose, hoping their users will eventually be annoyed into upgrading.

I won't mince words. Moho Debut's #1 design philosophy is to be annoying.

I suggest that Lost Marble discontinue Moho Debut and replace it with a cheap monthly subscription plan for Moho. This would allow new uses to start using all of Moho's cool features, rather than only a handful, and to do so without risking $400 on software they may not use after several months or a year.

Put yourself in my shoes for a minute. I'd like to buy my daughter a professional copy of Moho, but what if she loses interest after a while? If $400 was chump change, there would probably be a guitar gathering dust in her bedroom. And there isn't.

I tried teaching her animation using Moho Debut a few years ago, and it was too annoying. This is me talking to her back then: "Sorry, sweetheart, I guess you can't do that in your copy of Moho. I didn't realize that was a limitation when I answered your question earlier. Oops." Not surprisingly, she eventually stopped using Moho Debut (like almost everybody, I expect).

All that being said...

If Lost Marble ever enacts a subscription plan, I hope they also allow people to buy Moho for $400 and skip the subscription plan, for all the reasons already mentioned by the previous posters.

[synthsin75]

There is a 30 day free trial for Pro. That's one of your several months right there.

A smart person would start with trying out all the free software, test out the free trials, maybe a month or two of some subscription software. Maybe even some really cheap, older versions of software. Lots of options for figuring it out before you buy the latest and greatest. And most the latest and greatest options are either way more expensive or hold your files hostage to unending subscription fees. Plenty of options out there.

But...if you're already completely sold on one software, maybe there aren't so many options after all.

[SimplSam]

Certainly not opposed to a fairly priced dual-licensing model - which gives the consumer choice between subs and perpetual. I think it is fair to say the subs low barrier to entry would certainly attract more users. Also allows for 'project focused purchases' - where persons & teams just need licensing for a specific duration.

Personally - I much prefer to buy software outright, and there are various 3rd party financing options to assist those who cant stump up the full $400 (non-discounted) fee. I also recognise that I haven't contributed financially towards Moho for over 3 years, and am more than happy to reverse that situation ASAP.

The subs model also puts a lot more pressure / requirements on software houses to deliver timely updates. I can't imagine anyone being happy paying subs to SM for their rather un-timely development cycles (in the latter years). Subs would also potentially create a swarm of fickle new users who could end-up inundating sales/support with noob enquiries.

On the subject of Debut - I would much rather see a new dumbed down product, rather than a restricted one. i.e. A product that is easier to learn and use - allowing you to create animations without knowing that you are animating. Think Photoshop elements vs Photoshop proper.

One oddity - I noticed that Foundry Nuke offer both Rent and Buy options, but their Rent option (subs paid quarterly) costs more annually than the Buy (perpetual) option.

[arglborps]

On the subject of Debut - I would much rather see a new dumbed down product, rather than a restricted one. i.e. A product that is easier to learn and use - allowing you to create animations without knowing that you are animating. Think Photoshop elements vs Photoshop proper.

Totally agree, but the hard part is to make sure what you learn on the dumbed down product is transferable to the high end one. A bit like iMovie and Final Cut Pro. And you should be able to at least import data from the low end to the high end product.

[chucky]

I agree with Killian, about subscriptions.
Apps with subscriptions are not something I stick with personally.
It's about the data and art, creators need access.

[Greenlaw]

My feelings about subscription software has been mixed. Generally speaking, I'm against subscription-ware but there have been a few exceptions.

I like Adobe Creative Cloud because they offer a wide variety of programs for a single fee, and I actually use of many to most of these programs in my personal work on a daily basis, so it's a good value for me. Also, I use many of the same programs at my workplace so having the same tools to use in personal projects works well for me.

That said, it's annoying when Adobe purchases new tools like Substance, raises the price for Creative Cloud, but then offers Substance only as part of a separate subscription plan. Ugh! Evil!

Some subscriptions I currently pay for are just too expensive. For example, I used to buy the perpetual license for the Red Giant/Trapcode tools for After Effects, and I was happy to pay their nominal upgrade fee every few years. But then Maxon bought them up and went full subscription. While I think these tools are worth paying for, I really don't use them regularly enough to justify Maxon's high subscription rate, so it's likely I'll be dropping these tools after my current subscription runs out.

I also create 3D animation but I absolutely refuse to pay Autodesk's subscription rate for Maya. Even though I use Maya regularly at my workplace, I would never use it enough at home for personal use to justify the high rate. So this year I've been learning Blender. For now I'm only using Blender in my personal projects but once I'm proficient with it, there will be opportunities to use Blender at my workplace too, so it's a win-win! Blender is technically donation-ware and considering how quickly and regularly it's being developed, I more than happy to support that.

[Mattyj]

Quick question that may be related, seeing as the new ipad pro is going to come equipped with the new M2 Chip, and sounds pretty powerful, do you think there would be any chance of developing a version for ios? I definitely like my apple pencil, and certainly would be keen to grab that version, rather than have to splash out for a macbook pro in order to get the power of the new silicon chips.

[arglborps]

I had the same thought.
Seeing the announcement for Da Vinci Resolve coming to iPad OS by BlackMagic Design, I thought wouldn't it be cool to have a version of Moho on the iPad, too…?

[BigBoiiiJones]

Quick question that may be related, seeing as the new ipad pro is going to come equipped with the new M2 Chip, and sounds pretty powerful, do you think there would be any chance of developing a version for ios? I definitely like my apple pencil, and certainly would be keen to grab that version, rather than have to splash out for a macbook pro in order to get the power of the new silicon chips.

I think and would like to see Moho update its drawing tools and rendering engine before porting it over to the iPad. I have a Wacom Cintiq Pro 32" and the drawing experience is kind of meh tbh. It's better than it was back in the day but could still use huge improvements. It definitely still feels like it's better to draw in external software and use the add points tool to make the final product and that is so much more doable with a mouse than a pen display tablet. Like Moho feels like it was built more for mouse use that's for sure.

[Hoptoad]

Rather than a subscription model, I'd be happy with this improvement:

Moho Debut remains cheap/affordable, but it now does everything that Moho Professional can do, except it can't render to HD.

Also, Moho Debut would be renamed Moho.

[arglborps]

Or they could make a "student" version of Moho Pro. Which would basically be Moho Pro for free, but it would render with watermarks.

[Hoptoad]

Another excellent solution!

Basically, I think Moho is too expensive for teenagers, adults earning minimum wage, and to give away as a gift. And yet, Moho is a great animation tool for novice animators to learn, as the learning curve isn't intimidating -- unlike Maya or Blender or...gasp!...a pencil and paper (lol). A person can watch a tutorial and make a cartoon cloud move across the sky in five minutes.

I also think the 30-day trial is inadequate. Moho should allow 30 non-consecutive days, because people have busy lives, or a 3-month trial.

[Greenlaw]

Debut is already very cheap. $60 is less than the cost of many console video games. Heck, these days $60 can be a tank of gas. (So glad we drive a Prius.)

While I believe Debut is a great value for its feature set, I would like to see more features enabled and a few changes made to the UI. In my opinion, certain aspects of the current version make the program unnecessarily more difficult to use than Pro. If this means exchanging certain features, that's fine...the point is to make Debut easier and more fun to use for novices and hobbyists on a budget.

Restricting the render resolution and render options, and limiting the ability to use third party scripts is fine and expected. These limitations are standard for 'entry' vs 'pro' versions of other animation/compositing software I use.

If Debut's feature set and UI was reworked to make it easier and more usable for beginners and hobbyists, I think charging even a little more for it ($99?) would be appropriate.

(Victor and Mike, if either or both of you would like to discuss details, feel free to contact me directly.)

[Plan9]

https://moho.lostmarble.com/pages/education