What's the difference between Switch layers and Fbf layers?

[mmmaarten]

Hi, probably a silly question, but so far I can't find a real difference between using Switch layers and using Fbf layers to do fbf animations. I now used both to do the exact same thing with the exact same workflow to do fbf, but can't spot a change in workflow or benefit in using fbf layers yet.

What are the differences? What are the benefits of using a fbf-layer over a switch layer for fbf animations?

[BigBoiiiJones]

The only difference I noticed is when a layer is a fbf layer it has a UI element on top of the timeline where you could create new frames, duplicate frames, and delete frames where a Switch Layer doesn't have that. Aside from that they function very similarly.

[Greenlaw]

Moho's Switch layer and FBF layer both allow you to keyframe which contained drawings are displayed, but they serve different purposes and operate differently. The main difference is that Switch is meant for non-linear switching between layers, and FBF allows you to draw animation with vector layers sequentially and with a set frame interval.

Note that any Switch layer can be turned into an FBF layer anytime by enabling its Frame By Frame option in Layer Settings, and an FBF layer can be turned into a Switch layer by disabling it. Any existing keyframes will remain.

When you choose between New Switch or New FBF, you're basically telling Moho how to set up the option.

Note: before we got the FBF option, I sometimes used Switch to animate FBF in Moho. It worked, but it wasn't an ideal way to create the animation. Moho's FBF layer is a clever repurposing of the Switch layer, and it works reasonably well, given some limitations.

Tip #1: You can use FBF mode to create aligned drawings for a Switch layer, like Mouth Shapes, for example. Use Onion Skin to help you align the drawings, and when you're done, disable Frame By Frame Drawing, and the layer behaves like a regular Switch layer. This can be easier than creating all your drawings outside of the switch layer and then dragging them into the layer. Before using it as a regular Switch layer, you'll want to kill all the FBF keys of course.

Tip #2: Alternatively, there's a handy script called Switch View that temporarily moves all of a Switch layer's drawings to a new Group, and moves them back when you click it again. This is an automated way to pull the layers out of a switch so you can align the drawings. I sometimes use this tool for creating hand and mouth poses for a character. A Google search should turn it up--I think it's one of Pony Smasher's scripts. (Apologies in advance if it's someone else's creation.)

Hope this helps.

[hayasidist]

A personal view on FBF: the drawing UI limits fbf to being just one vector layer even though the underlying technology is capable of handling groups. For me the issue is that the UI / UX for drawing tools on individual layers in fbf groups (as with switch layers being used for fbf) leaves a lot to be desired. It can be made to work, but it's nowhere near as good as the UI for the (single layer) fbf.

[SimplSam]

What are the differences? What are the benefits of using a fbf-layer over a switch layer for fbf animations?

With FBF - The idea is to stay on the FBF group layer - you don't need to access the child-layers to draw etc.

You should also find the workflow faster in FBF mode - when using F5 (New Frame), Onion Skins and alt-left/right to jump to prev/next FBF-frame.

[mmmaarten]

The only difference I noticed is when a layer is a fbf layer it has a UI element on top of the timeline where you could create new frames, duplicate frames, and delete frames where a Switch Layer doesn't have that.
...

Moho's Switch layer and FBF layer both allow you to keyframe which contained drawings are displayed, but they serve different purposes and operate differently. The main difference is that Switch is meant for non-linear switching between layers, and FBF allows you to draw animation with vector layers sequentially and with a set frame interval.
...

...
For me the issue is that the UI / UX for drawing tools on individual layers in fbf groups (as with switch layers being used for fbf) leaves a lot to be desired. It can be made to work, but it's nowhere near as good as the UI for the (single layer) fbf.

With FBF - The idea is to stay on the FBF group layer - you don't need to access the child-layers to draw etc. You should also find the workflow faster in FBF mode - when using F5 (New Frame), Onion Skins and alt-left/right to jump to prev/next FBF-frame.

Thanks a lot for these helpful responses! There's some new information here for me which makes me understand the difference a little better now. Good to know we can convert the types back and forth (and the confirmation it's basically the same under water, with a mode switch, if I get that correctly from your posts). Guess I have to see now if I can improve my workflow with the fbf layers to feel the benefits a little better.
Thanks again for the quick responses!

[Greenlaw]

For me, the primary issue with FBF is not with the UI but with how the Freehand and Blob Tools work. But that's another subject discussed in detail elsewhere.

FBF's single-layer limitation is a big one, though. Chucky came up with an interesting workaround involving Reference layers to separate 'pencil', 'ink', and 'paint' passes. A search on YouTube should turn up a tutorial explaining Chucky's technique...watch for his watermelon animation.

[hayasidist]

For me, the primary issue with FBF is not with the UI but with how the Freehand and Blob Tools work. But that's another subject discussed in detail elsewhere.

FBF's single-layer limitation is a big one, though. Chucky came up with an interesting workaround involving Reference layers to separate 'pencil', 'ink', and 'paint' passes. A search on YouTube should turn up a tutorial explaining Chucky's technique...watch for his watermelon animation.

yeah - badly worded by me -- I was saying that if you have this:

FBF:
>frameGroup
>>Vector
>>Vector

then the FBF logic works (i.e. you can duplicate the frame group from the FBF UI) but you can't readily get at the vectors in the frameGroup group.


and yep, issues with blob brush / freehand ...

[Greenlaw]

Oh, yeah, that too. Thanks for clarifying.

In general, I think the idea behind Moho's FBF system is sound, at least for quickly adding FBF elements to a scene or character. I use it occasionally, and I would definitely use it routinely if the freehand drawing tools behaved more predictably.

(LM is aware of all this, and from Victor's recent statement, they're working on solutions.)

[hayasidist]

In general, I think the idea behind Moho's FBF system is sound, at least for quickly adding FBF elements to a scene or character. I use it occasionally, and I would definitely use it routinely if the freehand drawing tools behaved more predictably.

indeed.. my own use is to tween all the transitions that moho bone/vectors can't do "smoothly" - usually less than 20-30 frames. (Vitruvian bones have reduced the number of times I need it.)

given that Moho's strategy is (as Victor has indicated) to improve the freehand tools, I think an overhaul of the FBF UI/UX is much of what would be needed to make Moho a real FBF contender -- I think the underlying technology is already there.

(I'm kinda hoping at this point Chucky will chime in - as you've said his "Watermelon" and fbf referencing technique are a pointer for where to go. But, sadly, he's not been around here much of late.)