Paint Bucket is useless for me. Moho 14.

[Plan9]

I noticed the following in the first chapter of the tutorial.
I wanted to fill the shape and when I use the paint bucket it duplicates the shape. Why? According to Moho's support this should be the case but I don't see the point. Why should the shape be duplicated?


I use "https://www.deepl.com/de/translator".

[Greenlaw]

If you have an existing shape, you should use the Select Shape tool and Style window to edit its Style.

Moho's Paint Bucket can work for adding a new shape to an enclosed region, but it's meant to be a Shape-creation tool, not a Style-editing tool. So, yes, when you use Paint Bucket on top of an existing shape, there's a good chance it will generate a new shape on top rather than replace it. There's also a good chance that the shape will have irregular point placement because Paint Bucket auto-traces the region to create its shape.

The standard way to create a filled shape in Moho is to enable Auto-Fill when drawing the shape or by clicking on a path with the Create Shape Tool (to select its points) and press Enter. Either of these techniques will give you a fill shape with properly matching points.

Moho's Paint Bucket is more suitable for creating a filled shape inside irregular paths that overlap but aren't necessarily welded together. For example, if you overlap two circles like in a Venn diagram, Paint Bucket can create the center 'football' shape even though the two circles are not joined. (This is something you can't do with the standard methods because there are no points to select.)

Where I find Paint Bucket most helpful in filling parts of a freehand drawing created for FBF, because the line work may overlap and the regions might not be properly closed or welded.

Hope this helps.

[aongus]

If you have an existing shape, you should use the Select Shape tool and Style window to edit its Style.

Moho's Paint Bucket can work for adding a new shape to an enclosed region, but it's meant to be a Shape-creation tool, not a Style-editing tool. So, yes, when you use Paint Bucket on top of an existing shape, there's a good chance it will generate a new shape on top rather than replace it. There's also a good chance that the shape will have irregular point placement because Paint Bucket auto-traces the region to create its shape.

The standard way to create a filled shape in Moho is to enable Auto-Fill when drawing the shape or by clicking on a path (to select its points) with the Create Shape Tool and press Enter. Either of these techniques will give you a fill shape with properly matching points.

Moho's Paint Bucket is more suitable for creating a filled shape inside irregular paths that overlap but aren't necessarily welded together. For example, if you overlap two circles like in a Venn diagram, Paint Bucket can create the center 'football' shape even though the two circles are not joined. (This is something you can't do with the standard methods because there are no points to select.)

Where I find Paint Bucket most helpful in filling parts of a freehand drawing created for FBF, because the line work may overlap and the regions might not be properly closed or welded.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for your concise explanation. The Paint Bucket has baffled me for years, now I know what I've been doing wrong!

[Greenlaw]

It's understandable to assume the Paint Bucket tool is used to edit a shape's Style because that's how a Paint Bucket tool works in many paint programs. And it can sort of be used that way in Moho, so that's not technically 'wrong'...but there are better and more reliable ways to edit Styles.

[Farren]

@Plan9

I wanted to fill the shape and when I use the paint bucket it duplicates the shape. Why?

I find myself asking the same question. Especially since it worked just fine in version 13.5 (& predecessors). I hope that this is an oversight & is something that will be fixed.
Literally, all I do in Moho is design & create characters ready to be rigged by the rigging & animation teams. Not being able to use fill makes this a complete waste of money for me (I'm mostly freelance, so I buy my own software) - I'm still using 13.5 for now but haven't requested a refund in the hopes that there will be a patch fix.

I did find a workaround for v14 but honestly, it's easier to just use 13.5 right now.

Copy & pasted from my discord post;

"Personally, I find that the create shape tool doesn't always work very well on complicated shapes with lots of intersecting lines.

I did manage to find a workaround for the fill tool after a bit of tinkering though.

1) Using the "Select Shape" tool, select the lines of the shape you're trying to fill.
2) Delete the stroke/line
3) Select the "Paint Bucket" tool, but make sure to select "both" at the top.
4) Now you can fill the shape and the stroke/line will also be restored.

Here's a gif if that's easier to follow.
Would appreciate if this was fixed properly though."



@Greenlaw

If you have an existing shape, you should use the Select Shape tool and Style window to edit its Style.

The standard way to create a filled shape in Moho is to enable Auto-Fill when drawing the shape

This is true, but not usable on complex shapes with many intersecting lines. (Something I deal with a lot when creating detailed characters)

Paint Bucket can create the center 'football' shape even though the two circles are not joined.

Except you can't anymore. Since in version 14 it makes a hideous extra shape rather than using the existing vector lines!


Honestly, this whole thing is just super frustrating.

[Daxel]

@Greenlaw

If you have an existing shape, you should use the Select Shape tool and Style window to edit its Style.

The standard way to create a filled shape in Moho is to enable Auto-Fill when drawing the shape

This is true, but not usable on complex shapes with many intersecting lines. (Something I deal with a lot when creating detailed characters)

Paint Bucket can create the center 'football' shape even though the two circles are not joined.

Except you can't anymore. Since in version 14 it makes a hideous extra shape rather than using the existing vector lines!


Honestly, this whole thing is just super frustrating.

Can you share some moho file as example of a shape that can be created using the bucket tool in v13.5 but not in v14?

[Farren]

@Daxel

Can you share some moho file as example of a shape that can be created using the bucket tool in v13.5 but not in v14?

Literally any shape, have you not tried it? Just draw a circle as an example.

[Daxel]

@Daxel

Can you share some moho file as example of a shape that can be created using the bucket tool in v13.5 but not in v14?

Literally any shape, have you not tried it? Just draw a circle as an example.

Drawing just a circle and then using the bucket tool:

v14: succesfully creates fill, stroke or fill+stroke.
v13.5: same.

When your drawing has already a shape they act differently, I think this is what you mean:

v14: adds a shape on top of the previous one.
v13.5: replaces the previous shape with the new one.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or the change has some purpose. I never use the bucket tool but I think it makes more sense how it works in v13.5.

[Plan9]

The paint bucket should fill the shape but not duplicate it. Other programs only fill. In Moho the paint bucket is not useful for me. I use other possibilities of Moho.

Why should the paint bucket duplicate the shape? I see no reason. Do you?

[Greenlaw]

I'm not sure. I suppose if a shape exists under the Paint Bucket cursor, Moho could assume the user wants to replace the Style. But Moho has another tool that may do what you want...see below.

As mentioned, the proper way is to Select the shape and then edit the Style. After you set one shape the way you want, use Eyedropper (click to copy style, Alt-click to paste style.) You don't even need to select the shape for this, so this is probably closer to how you thought the Paint Bucket should work. (Actually, this is one better because Paint Bucket can't copy a Style.)

BTW, Eyedropper has many useful options; be sure to try all the different shortcuts for this tool in the Status bar. Alternatively, you can use the Copy/Paste buttons in the Style window, but I would learn Eyedropper since it's quicker and more flexible.

[Farren]

@Daxel

Drawing just a circle and then using the bucket tool:

v14: successfully creates fill, stroke or fill+stroke.
v13.5: same.

Interesting. May I ask how are you drawing without creating a shape? I exclusively use freehand, & when drawing a circle (auto-fill disabled), using fill always creates a new shape within the existing freehand drawing.

@Plan9

Why should the paint bucket duplicate the shape? I see no reason. Do you?

I honestly have no idea why anyone would prefer this behaviour, it baffles me.

@Greenlaw

As mentioned, the proper way is to Select the shape and then edit the Style.

I reiterate, the 'proper' way simply isn't adequate and does not suit my needs.


I really don't think it's too much to ask for the previous version of the tool back, or a toggle to switch between operating modes. A fundamental part of my workflow has been removed.

[Daxel]

@Daxel

Drawing just a circle and then using the bucket tool:

v14: successfully creates fill, stroke or fill+stroke.
v13.5: same.

Interesting. May I ask how are you drawing without creating a shape? I exclusively use freehand, & when drawing a circle (auto-fill disabled), using fill always creates a new shape within the existing freehand drawing.

You can draw with the Freehand tool, the Add Points tool or the Draw Shape tool without creating shapes just disabling auto-stroke and auto-fill, and then the bucket tool fills the shape properly without creating any new shape. If that is not working for you using the Freehand tool, maybe you are not conecting the strokes at the end, which is needed to form a correct shape. Try to make sure the first and the last point are connected by a line using Freehand's "Weld ends" option.

An alternative, if you have a shape that is not closed is to use the Create Shape tool and use the "connect and create" button.

@Greenlaw

As mentioned, the proper way is to Select the shape and then edit the Style.

I reiterate, the 'proper' way simply isn't adequate and does not suit my needs.


I really don't think it's too much to ask for the previous version of the tool back, or a toggle to switch between operating modes. A fundamental part of my workflow has been removed.

I understand your proposal and I think we all agree it makes sense but aside from that I just still don't understand the benefits of your described workflow and I feel it may be possible that we can help you to improve it but I may be wrong because I'm not sure I understand it. For example, in the gif you shared, right at the step 1 you have the shape selected and you can just click on the fill option in the Select Shape tool options, to add a fill to the selected shape. If that is a closed drawing, with the first and last points conected, it should work.

[synthsin75]

The paint bucket creates new shapes because it can also create shapes out of unconnected vector lines. Since the select shape tool is meant for editing the fills & strokes, the paint bucket assumes you're only using it to create a new shape when used on an existing one.

[Farren]

@Daxel

You can draw with the Freehand tool, the Add Points tool or the Draw Shape tool without creating shapes just disabling auto-stroke

You absolute hero! I would not have thought of unchecking auto-stroke & the broskis I'm working with didn't either. Thank you so much - I can now scribble my little heart out using v14. ♥

I understand your proposal and I think we all agree it makes sense but aside from that I just still don't understand the benefits of your described workflow and I feel it may be possible that we can help you to improve it but I may be wrong because I'm not sure I understand it. For example, in the gif you shared, right at the step 1 you have the shape selected and you can just click on the fill option in the Select Shape tool options, to add a fill to the selected shape. If that is a closed drawing, with the first and last points conected, it should work.

Yes, right. So the .gif was a really simple example that I could throw in real quick. I've actually just been using 13.5 rather than dealing with this faff at all, since in 13.5 I can make & mess with shapes and use the fill tool to my heart's content.
I'm often tasked with creating quite detailed models, particularly if the client wants a close-up scene of a character's face (I'm the gal that does the monsters, dragons & other fantasy creatures, which can get a bit involved). Due to this, the actual shapes I'm trying to fill have many intersecting lines, where essentially (at least with auto-stroke enabled), I'd be carving up a shape by adding more strokes, right? In doing this, using 'select shape' often wouldn't recognise areas as a 'shape' thus couldn't then be edited in that way. Hence my request for the previous version of the fill tool to be re-instated. I hope that makes sense?

Honestly, if it were as simple as just using the select shape tool, I'd just be doing that.

[Farren]

The paint bucket creates new shapes because it can also create shapes out of unconnected vector lines. Since the select shape tool is meant for editing the fills & strokes, the paint bucket assumes you're only using it to create a new shape when used on an existing one.

But why the change in behaviour from previous versions?