Character Interaction with other Objects

[starstriker32]

Hello, I'm pretty new to Moho (started out with 2D Animation in After Effects) and am still learning the ropes. I was wondering if anybody had any tips or knows of any video tutorials that deal with characters and there interaction with other objects? In my particular case I am working on a Christmas themed Elf character who is chasing another Character on reindeer back and I am trying to figure out how to get the Elves Arm/Hand to interact with or follow the Reigns that are connected to the Reindeer? I remember a few weeks ago seeing a quick video of a rat in a Matchbox Go-cart that was similar and it looked pretty cool. My first try at it looks alright from a distance but close up its all over the place.

Any help/guidance would be greatly appreciated

Thanks.

[hayasidist]

Many Moho newbies are stuck in a mindset that thinks only in terms of real world objects and that, because they are separate and "whole" in the real world, they have to be drawn as separate, whole objects in the animation world; and that that's how it must be in every shot (= moho file).

So, assuming you've done some rough planning: will you need (e.g.) to show the elf actually dropping the reins? Do you just have a shot of him/her riding the reindeer?

Take a look at your rough sketches and try to rethink the problem: can you break your reindeer / rein / elf into groups that will be animated together - IOW (and e.g.) could you have an elf "hand" that also includes a rein? If the rein needs to be dropped, could you do this by having an invisible segment of rein that stretches when the rein is dropped?

or could you use Moho's animated "reparenting" -- so the rein "root" bone can be parented to and unparented from the elf hand bone?

and loads of other ways too...

IMO, bottom line: once you've dumped the mindset that says real world objects are drawn and rigged as separate entities and they each must have just one rig that is used for all shots, you'll quickly figure out how to re-use (portions of) artwork in multiple rigs that include fragments of artwork (from one or more objects) grouped in way to make animating easy and deliver the visual output that you want. Plus, Moho makes it pretty easy to switch between rigs (e.g. Vitruvian bones groups).

[NanotechBeasts]

A work file would be helpful or a youtube clip. Based on what you are saying you will probably need another version of your rig. I am going to imagine you have a rigged side version of the elf and a rigged side version of the reindeer.
I would duplicate my elf rig and layer one rig in front and one rig behind the reindeer. So it should be layered like this Elf Rig 1 >Reindeer Rig>Elf Rig 2. I would turn off all layers but one leg and one arm on Elf Rig 1 so that leg and arm look like they are behind the reindeer. Then on Elf Rig 2 I would turn on every layer but that leg and arm. Then I would make the hands fists and place them on top of the rein and manually animate it so it looked like the rein was being pulled.

[starstriker32]

Thankyou for your replies.

Here is a short Clip of the characters, if that can shed some light.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/umlngTfMIj8[/youtube]

These are meant to be background characters so it might not be too bad but for closeups and such it might be quite noticeable.

I created target bones for the Elves legs and parented them to the Reindeers body and that makes and I tried doing the same with the arms to the reigns but I'm not sure
if that's the best way to go about it or not?

The original file is drawing I made in Clip Studio Paint.

Thankyou again.

[hayasidist]

as you say, it doesn't look too bad.

To offer some ideas on how to tidy it up (e.g. animate the rein loop from the noseband to the throat lash - or whatever the correct terminology is) - that would depend on how you've layered the various elements in CSP; and potentially, if you're on 14.1, you might think in terms of using a curver layer?

I didn't get the feel of a "chase" - more gentle canter than pursuit gallop, but that may be ok for the situation.

[Daxel]

This script by Mult Rush will help when you have the rigs separated but still need them to interact acurately:

https://youtu.be/r5LB2co8dzk?si=j1nRCNi0kpzf27k1

[NanotechBeasts]

I was so excited to see an actual file on what you are working on. I was pretty impressed by what you have done so far. That is probably already beyond me level wise on this aspect.

I do agree with hayasidist that this doesn't look like a hard pursuit chase, but I do think that what you have could be just fine depending on the style of the race. I had looked up some riding with holding flags on horses but other than the occasional artist rendering of the rider leaning towards the horse which were images and drawings I could not find an actual video of a hard ride with a flag. The closest image I found of running with a flag was this https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... dwqK8BpA&s . And when you are riding an animal with antlers leaning your face into the antlers may not work out so well. So many the race is a show prance or canter instead like a medieval jousting tournament. https://youtube.com/shorts/UtbXrtKEOic? ... FJoaZEbk1j . Judging by your Western Stagecoach Chase you already know how to create a running horse. I am still working on my character's walk cycle so you are leagues beyond me on this aspect.


'I created target bones for the Elves legs and parented them to the Reindeers body and that makes and I tried doing the same with the arms to the reigns but I'm not sure
if that's the best way to go about it or not?' It was clever to parent the legs to the reindeer so they both get the same bounce. On the reigns and hands I would probably just manually do that interaction with the run cycle and then modify it a little here and there in the actual animation. A bone chain may be helpful so I would try to use one and see the result you could just unparent it if it doesn't help in a frame. If you end up going for a run run everything is going move more and probably lean forward (although I have seen where people move their body opposite of the direction of the horse's movement (hand facing the tail) to shoot arrows behind them). If the reindeer is doing more of a prance the head is higher and the reins would be tighter. I am still getting use to the new features of Moho 12 pro. I was on 11 for a long time and may not be up to date with the best methods.

I will also mention in Princess Mononoke, one of the characters has an antelope steed thing which the character often rides with one hand so it could be a helpful reference.

I look forward to seeing what you create.

[Hoptoad]

This is how I would do it. . .

Put the Elf bone group inside the reindeer bone group (resize if necessary). Make sure the Elf bone group is at the TOP of the reindeer layers, so it overlaps everything.

Move the Elf limbs and so forth to get the sitting pose. Make the "far leg" invisible if necessary.

Layer bind the Elf bone group to the reindeer's root/saddle bone.

The Elf should be riding and bouncing along with the reindeer at this point. But there are still 2 things to do: fix the reins, fix the antlers so they are above the Elf.

To fix the antler overlap, duplicate the antlers and move the duplicate layer(s) ABOVE the Elf bone group.

To fix the reins, there are multiple solutions. The easiest, imo, is to leave the bridle in the reindeer group, but MOVE the reins layer INTO the Elf group. I would then make several bones for the reins, at least 3, linked in a row, going from the hand outward. I would attach the reins to these bones by whatever method you want (bone strength, point binding, whatever). Now the Elf controls the reins, and you only have to worry about the end that attaches to the bridle. To make the reins move with the bridle, I would simply move the rein bones so that the end of the reins follows the bridle. It seems like a big deal, as it would require a lot of keyframes, but it wouldn't take long.

[starstriker32]

Thankyou for the suggestions.
I'm going to try a few tests with the different layer and bone structures you guys suggested, and the curver layer sounds promising too.

I have just finished drawing a 2 Reindeer Chariot so will try these new techniques on that.

I agree with the Reindeer's pace being a little slower. I found a few pictures of a "Deer run cycle' on the internet and used that as reference for the animation.
I might try taking out every second stage of the cycle and see if that looks alright.

I want it to be like a cavalry charge with 30-40 Elves, so hopefully that with a handheld camera style will give it a bit more pace and chaos too.

[hayasidist]

Thankyou for the suggestions.
I agree with the Reindeer's pace being a little slower. I found a few pictures of a "Deer run cycle' on the internet and used that as reference for the animation.
I might try taking out every second stage of the cycle and see if that looks alright.

I think what you have is a canter - that's a three-beat gait. A gallop is a 4-beat gait. So taking out tweens will just speed up the canter. If you google canter vs gallop you'll find loads of reference material to show the different leg movements (I also found this deer gallop video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xemj6rJ9JmM )

[Hoptoad]

I want it to be like a cavalry charge with 30-40 Elves, so hopefully that with a handheld camera style will give it a bit more pace and chaos too.

Sounds awesome.

The speed of reindeer looks good, imo. It looks like it's going maximum speed.