D.K
Simple 4 bone 3D head turn part2
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
Oh boy...
Sad little Vern is sobbing quietly in front of his computer. I have been watching this with... great but.. conflicted interest.
Honestly... this solution kicks mine out of the park.
First off... my desire to "sell" my rig to the community was motivated by two things; a desire to make some desperately needed extra income and also to produce advanced and easily posable characters for AS users.
This rig is brilliant. It blows mine out of the water. It still needs some work but there is no denying this.
It is faster, more efficient, easier to set up. I have decided that it would be silly for me to continue with my 300+ bone rig. Well... to be honest I couldn't continue knowing what I know now anyway.
It would be like the first wheel maker continuing to sell his high priced square wheels because he doesn't want to steel the free and slick round design from the guy in the next cave.
However my focus always was and still is on a single bone's translation key for head rotation.
I have some ideas and thoughts I would like to share and would be interested in your feedback.
--------
I have made huge advancements in layer script bone control. And would add the following features using a single layer script:
Single bone control. Piece of cake. I already have that capability right now since I added in scale control based on bone translation to my body rig. I was going to incorporate that at some point in my face rig. I was on the same track as DK... I just wasn't quick enough darnit!
Layer Flipping
Automatic layer flipping for ears and hair. Hair on the sides of the head need to "go back" just like the ears. This can be done by flipping (and of course scaling) the hair layers. This script is already done and works PERFECTLY. It can easily be added to this rig.
Bone Controlled Facial Posing.
Once again I already have this solved with my rig. Because of the brilliant use of bone scaling for simulated rotation in this rig the number of bones required from my rig would be much less. Still need a few more bones.
Up and Down Rotation
I don't know how far any of you have gotten with that aspect but I can already see how to incorporate "up down" rotation. It would need a few extra bones of course. Imagine a "curved" chain of bones (3 or 4 maybe?) that roughly follow the contour of the face/head that scale in sequence to simulate the up down rotation. It popped into my head as soon as I looked at the rig.
So ultimately this whole rig would work with ONE BONE KEY as mine does. Everything controlled by one layer script. There would not be any keys other than one control bone translation. That has ALWAYS been my goal with a rig like this.
I plan to completely change the so called "business plan" for what I would like to sell on content paradise and focus on making DK's rig even better and of course freely available to everyone.
I always wanted to share my rig... but over the years I have always given away too much of my talent for free... to ungreatful deadbeat clients with promises of riches... to family (you can't charge family right?) to unpaid spec work...
Working on producing this "open source" rig would actually take a lot of pressure off of me. I wouldn't be so concerned about "not sharing" to protect my "product". I can focus on producing the characters for sale. That much I CAN own.
As a side effect, by all of us working together on this rig any of us could create amazing original character content to sell on content paradise if we wanted to. The rig itself would be free to all. It would be the original artistic designs that could be sold which is really what I want to do anyway.
I will admit I am a bit sad... many many hours of work on my rig... oh well... I just didn't get it to market fast enough... just as well since this is so much better!!!
I will work on adapting my scale control translation script to the prototype rig here and will post it.
I am officially on board with this and sharing my ideas freely with the AS community.
I can't ignore the fact that this IS going to be the definitive 2.5D rig. I can't say it enough... THIS THING KICKS ARSE BABY!
The knot in my stomach is loosening up a bit. And at least I won't have to deal with 300 bazillion bones anymore.
p.s. This rig works with Region Binding on the bones just as well as flexible. I prefer Region binding myself... any thoughts on this?
-vern
Sad little Vern is sobbing quietly in front of his computer. I have been watching this with... great but.. conflicted interest.
Honestly... this solution kicks mine out of the park.
First off... my desire to "sell" my rig to the community was motivated by two things; a desire to make some desperately needed extra income and also to produce advanced and easily posable characters for AS users.
This rig is brilliant. It blows mine out of the water. It still needs some work but there is no denying this.
It is faster, more efficient, easier to set up. I have decided that it would be silly for me to continue with my 300+ bone rig. Well... to be honest I couldn't continue knowing what I know now anyway.
It would be like the first wheel maker continuing to sell his high priced square wheels because he doesn't want to steel the free and slick round design from the guy in the next cave.
However my focus always was and still is on a single bone's translation key for head rotation.
I have some ideas and thoughts I would like to share and would be interested in your feedback.
--------
I have made huge advancements in layer script bone control. And would add the following features using a single layer script:
Single bone control. Piece of cake. I already have that capability right now since I added in scale control based on bone translation to my body rig. I was going to incorporate that at some point in my face rig. I was on the same track as DK... I just wasn't quick enough darnit!
Layer Flipping
Automatic layer flipping for ears and hair. Hair on the sides of the head need to "go back" just like the ears. This can be done by flipping (and of course scaling) the hair layers. This script is already done and works PERFECTLY. It can easily be added to this rig.
Bone Controlled Facial Posing.
Once again I already have this solved with my rig. Because of the brilliant use of bone scaling for simulated rotation in this rig the number of bones required from my rig would be much less. Still need a few more bones.
Up and Down Rotation
I don't know how far any of you have gotten with that aspect but I can already see how to incorporate "up down" rotation. It would need a few extra bones of course. Imagine a "curved" chain of bones (3 or 4 maybe?) that roughly follow the contour of the face/head that scale in sequence to simulate the up down rotation. It popped into my head as soon as I looked at the rig.
So ultimately this whole rig would work with ONE BONE KEY as mine does. Everything controlled by one layer script. There would not be any keys other than one control bone translation. That has ALWAYS been my goal with a rig like this.
I plan to completely change the so called "business plan" for what I would like to sell on content paradise and focus on making DK's rig even better and of course freely available to everyone.
I always wanted to share my rig... but over the years I have always given away too much of my talent for free... to ungreatful deadbeat clients with promises of riches... to family (you can't charge family right?) to unpaid spec work...
Working on producing this "open source" rig would actually take a lot of pressure off of me. I wouldn't be so concerned about "not sharing" to protect my "product". I can focus on producing the characters for sale. That much I CAN own.
As a side effect, by all of us working together on this rig any of us could create amazing original character content to sell on content paradise if we wanted to. The rig itself would be free to all. It would be the original artistic designs that could be sold which is really what I want to do anyway.
I will admit I am a bit sad... many many hours of work on my rig...
oh well... I just didn't get it to market fast enough... just as well since this is so much better!!!I will work on adapting my scale control translation script to the prototype rig here and will post it.
I am officially on board with this and sharing my ideas freely with the AS community.
I can't ignore the fact that this IS going to be the definitive 2.5D rig. I can't say it enough... THIS THING KICKS ARSE BABY!
The knot in my stomach is loosening up a bit. And at least I won't have to deal with 300 bazillion bones anymore.
p.s. This rig works with Region Binding on the bones just as well as flexible. I prefer Region binding myself... any thoughts on this?
-vern
Vern. I don't mind in the least if you make some money out of this. I would love to see your characters available on Content Paradise featuring this rig. My passion is to have a standard 3D model engine available for everyone to use. One that is simple for the likes of me to understand. Imagine how powerful your scripting can make this model?
BTW.
I have made a mouth.
This mouth is a full working switch layer.
http://www.wienertoonz.com/3DHmouth.swf
Can anyone figure out how I did this?
No fancy scripts or bones used. Just a plain old switch layer split in half and each side parented to extra control bones that work off the angle bone constraints. This maintains the symmetry of the face rotation. I animated the first half of the mouth in the switch layer then copy and fliped it. easy as pie.
And here is the anme file
http://www.wienertoonz.com/DK3Dmouthc.anme
D.K
BTW.
I have made a mouth.
This mouth is a full working switch layer.
http://www.wienertoonz.com/3DHmouth.swf
Can anyone figure out how I did this?
No fancy scripts or bones used. Just a plain old switch layer split in half and each side parented to extra control bones that work off the angle bone constraints. This maintains the symmetry of the face rotation. I animated the first half of the mouth in the switch layer then copy and fliped it. easy as pie.
And here is the anme file
http://www.wienertoonz.com/DK3Dmouthc.anme
D.K
Last edited by DK on Mon May 14, 2007 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hello Vern,
Glad to see your voice in this thread. Yes, sad news to your 2.5D rig. I'm sorry you have spend so many hours to develop a 2.5D rig and now with a few one have more or less the same result.
.
I have been also surpisely impresed by its simplicity.
I'll NEVER forget that your contribution have been ALWAYS brillant and we (all the forum members) want you to continue doing it beacuse your additions encourages and light our brains.
Also remember that the most high value you can add to your sealable models are the drawing itself and not the rig. How can you avoid me or other buy one model and aplply your technique to a new one done by myself? It is impossible unless you encode it like the machine languages for the commercial applications for PC's. Once you sell a model you have sell also the "source code". It was impossible to maintain it protected. But the drawings itself have more value for people who need a character from Content Paradise.
I have also some ideas to add to this scale-turn technique. But now I have to go. Tonight more.
I think it could be a true brainstorm...
Glad to see your voice in this thread. Yes, sad news to your 2.5D rig. I'm sorry you have spend so many hours to develop a 2.5D rig and now with a few one have more or less the same result.
.I have been also surpisely impresed by its simplicity.
I'll NEVER forget that your contribution have been ALWAYS brillant and we (all the forum members) want you to continue doing it beacuse your additions encourages and light our brains.
Also remember that the most high value you can add to your sealable models are the drawing itself and not the rig. How can you avoid me or other buy one model and aplply your technique to a new one done by myself? It is impossible unless you encode it like the machine languages for the commercial applications for PC's. Once you sell a model you have sell also the "source code". It was impossible to maintain it protected. But the drawings itself have more value for people who need a character from Content Paradise.
I have also some ideas to add to this scale-turn technique. But now I have to go. Tonight more.
I think it could be a true brainstorm...
Exactly!
Thanks DK. That was sort of my point. I was planning on adding "value" by including the rig.
If the rig is available to everyone the value would be the characters themselves.
This changes my focus.
It could be that there might be "multiple" versions of this rig.
For instance your rig as is would work perfectly with switch layer lip sync since the mouth wouldn't have to be offset to be controlled by bones.
In order to add bone controls for facial posing I will need to move all the facial elements away from the head. Everything still works based on the simple scaling of bones.
I am totally and completely THRILLED with this. I already started fiddling with it and have most of the rotation controlled from one bone. I will post my preliminary results later this morning.
You may not like the direction I'm going in which is fine. I am eliminating point binding (point binding doesn't work for targeted facial posing).
I may actually apply some of this to my previous rig which might save time in development. If I do I will share that as well.
-vern
Thanks DK. That was sort of my point. I was planning on adding "value" by including the rig.
If the rig is available to everyone the value would be the characters themselves.
This changes my focus.
It could be that there might be "multiple" versions of this rig.
For instance your rig as is would work perfectly with switch layer lip sync since the mouth wouldn't have to be offset to be controlled by bones.
In order to add bone controls for facial posing I will need to move all the facial elements away from the head. Everything still works based on the simple scaling of bones.
I am totally and completely THRILLED with this. I already started fiddling with it and have most of the rotation controlled from one bone. I will post my preliminary results later this morning.
You may not like the direction I'm going in which is fine. I am eliminating point binding (point binding doesn't work for targeted facial posing).
I may actually apply some of this to my previous rig which might save time in development. If I do I will share that as well.
-vern
I suppouse you have separated the scale bones for the mouth into the switch layer. Then use interpolation and that's all. The switch layer is binded to a translating bone.DK wrote:Vern. I don't mind in the least if you make some money out of this. I would love to see your characters available on Content Paradise featuring this rig. My passion is to have a standard 3D model engine available for everyone to use. One that is simple for the likes of me to understand. Imagine how powerful your scripting can make this model?
BTW.
I have made a mouth.
This mouth is a full working switch layer.
http://www.wienertoonz.com/3DHmouth.swf
Can anyone figure out how I did this?
D.K
Great!
Want to see the anme file!!!!!
See you tonight. Now I have to go.
Hey guys! don't develop so much meanhile I'm outside!! I want to develop something else!!!
Arrrgh
I have to go to work!See you.
Genete
REPOST
I did not have to add any extra bones after all The mouth switch
layers are parented to the original control bones. The less bones the better
Here is the anme file
http://www.wienertoonz.com/mouth.anme
D.K
I did not have to add any extra bones after all
The mouth switchlayers are parented to the original control bones. The less bones the better
Here is the anme file
http://www.wienertoonz.com/mouth.anme
D.K
I get up this morning and can't believe the advancements made here! 
DK. That mouth animation is genius. I couldn't quite understand what you meant until I opened the file in AS and studied - so simple even I can see how it was done so far with the two separate mouth halves.
Vern. I really feel for you on this as I looked at your work in absolute awe! I am fairly new to AS but even so, I know that had I been using it for years there's no way I could come up with the developments you did and, indeed, that DK now is doing and ofcourse, the work of Genete.
When this is at a stage that it will work with almost any character model I would gladly pay for a step by step tutorial/pdf/DVD? that shows someone like me how to install the rig.
Thanks so much to everyone who is working on this. I'm going to attempt to install it into a character of my own tonight just to see what i can do
DK. That mouth animation is genius. I couldn't quite understand what you meant until I opened the file in AS and studied - so simple even I can see how it was done so far with the two separate mouth halves.
Vern. I really feel for you on this as I looked at your work in absolute awe! I am fairly new to AS but even so, I know that had I been using it for years there's no way I could come up with the developments you did and, indeed, that DK now is doing and ofcourse, the work of Genete.
When this is at a stage that it will work with almost any character model I would gladly pay for a step by step tutorial/pdf/DVD? that shows someone like me how to install the rig.
Thanks so much to everyone who is working on this. I'm going to attempt to install it into a character of my own tonight just to see what i can do
One final update for today.
http://www.wienertoonz.com/mouthblink.swf
http://www.wienertoonz.com/DK3Dmouthblink.anme
D.K
http://www.wienertoonz.com/mouthblink.swf
http://www.wienertoonz.com/DK3Dmouthblink.anme
D.K
I didn't know that when you bind a layer to a bone it scales when the parent bone scales!!!! It is not explained in the help and never thought it could be done!!!! VERY SMART!!
(one small tip for the curious: when the bone scales the layer scales and dont maintain the line width the same. It also scales the line width as much the bone scales)
Very smart also the idea of divide the mouth into two half. the pain is that you have to synchronize the switch keyframes between one mouth and its half.
Any ideas to the nose?
(one small tip for the curious: when the bone scales the layer scales and dont maintain the line width the same. It also scales the line width as much the bone scales)
Very smart also the idea of divide the mouth into two half. the pain is that you have to synchronize the switch keyframes between one mouth and its half.
Any ideas to the nose?
A question.
The layers inside the mouth seems to be unaffected by any bone I add to the mouth switch layer. I've tried "Flexibind points" after made a "Release points" once I have selected all the points of the A mouth and it continues immune to any bone I put inside.
DK, have you done something special I cannot see now ?
The layers inside the mouth seems to be unaffected by any bone I add to the mouth switch layer. I've tried "Flexibind points" after made a "Release points" once I have selected all the points of the A mouth and it continues immune to any bone I put inside.
DK, have you done something special I cannot see now ?