another obvious question

toonertime · Post by **toonertime** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:31 am

okay

I am through with a segment of animation, 240 frames.
NOW I want to start a new animation file, with the last
setup at frame 240 as my first starting setup in my
new file. I can't find an answer in the "manual"

Is there an easy answer to this?

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:54 am

There is a thread about this exact topic. I don't know where or what to search for but it was in the last few months. Probably in this section.

Basically you need to key all the animated elements on the last frame, then move those keys to frame 1 and delete all the other keys. You have to key the elements since if you don't and there was a key in a prior frame you would lose that motion when you move the last frame to frame 1.

The options discussed were a custom tool or menu script for placing a key frame for all layers at once and or using the scale key frames menu item.

-vern

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:29 am

Make a copy of your file. In that copy, go to frame # 240. You'll find a handy tool under the menu item "Animation": "Copy Current frame". Check "whole document", then enter "1" as destination frame. This nifty little tool will create a key in every timeline and the copy it to where you want. Now it's just your work needed to erase everything except frame # 1 from every timeline you used.

EDIT:
I have been soo stupid!

The trick is much easier to achieve.

"Copy current frame" to destination frame 0 (zero), then use the "Clear Animation from Document". Done.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:11 am

Copy current frame" to destination frame 0 (zero), then use the "Clear Animation from Document". Done.

AAAHHGGGGG!!!

This could be very dangerous. Most of us do a lot of "set up" on frame 0. If you copy animation to this frame it WILL completely mess up any character set up. The bones keys are copied but NOT the effect they have on the mesh.

This will not work if you use bones for animating vectors.

-vern

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:35 am

Well, it works with the set of characters I have here. I assume it depends on how you set up characters. These are shared between hundreds of files, so the setup was done elsewhere, and they already have their finished look in frame 0 anyway.

JCook · Post by **JCook** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:59 pm

How about copy the frame, then clear animation from the document, then paste the frame on frame 1?

Jack

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:23 pm

Nope, doesn't work that way. AS seems to read out the source frame only in the moment it writes the destination frame.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:31 pm

slowtiger wrote:Well, it works with the set of characters I have here. I assume it depends on how you set up characters. These are shared between hundreds of files, so the setup was done elsewhere, and they already have their finished look in frame 0 anyway.

Like I said, if you don't use bones AT ALL it will work. If you only do point motion and layer motion copying keys to frame 0 is fine.

If however you use bones to manipulate the vectors in any way, then rotate a bone on a later frame and copy the bone rotation or translation BACK to frame 0 the bone is now in a position not aligned with the mesh.

Rotating or moving a bone on frame 0 effects the bone ONLY it doesn't effect the mesh of a vector layer. You can only use bones to change the mesh after frame 0 or by using bone offset on frame 0.

There is one exception:
If you copy bone SCALING to frame 0 it will apply the scaling as a bone offset which WILL effect the mesh since scaling is not a value that can be done on frame 0, only bone length.

I am not sure if copying frames from the menu command will actually copy bone scaling though. Never tried it.

-vern

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:37 pm

Well, it works, and it is a scene with complex characters and LOTS of bones and nested layers etc ...

But of course I can't guarantee that it will work elsewhere. I've tested it with just one file.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:18 pm

It can't work.

If bones are used to animate and you copy the movement of bones to frame 0 they WILL overwrite the "base" position of the bones.

We must be talking about two totally different things.

Unless of course the frame you are copying is EXACTLY like or close to the bone position that is already on frame 0.

Any bone position or angle etc is propagated throughout the time line.

Frame 0 is for positioning bones before animating them. If you change the bones position or rotation on frame 0 it will change the relationship to anything the bone has control over like a mesh or a layer.

If a bone is rotated 20 degrees on frame 0 and then rotated 10 degrees more on frame 10 the total rotation is 30 degrees on frame 10.

EDIT:

I screwed up the following description previously and have fixed it now. but my argument is still valid.

If you copy frame 10 rotation to frame 0 the rotation is not 20 anymore on frame 0 which is carried through out the whole time line, it is now 30 on frame 0. So the rotation on frame 10 is now 30 but there won't be any motion from 0 to 30. In fact deleting the key on frame 10 won't change anything because now the "default" frame 0 rotation is 30. But this will effect everything else as well.

If the rotation on frame 0 of the bone "lines it up" with a limb and you change that rotation by pasting it in it won't be lined up anymore.

Is this making sense? I just did it in AS twice now to make sure I'm not nuts.

-vern

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:48 pm

I think I solved that mystery by testing several different files.

It does not work within a file where one has used the "Offset Bone" Tool during construction, or which relies on flexible binding.

It seems to work, however, with the bunch of files I got to work with. Someone built the characters and didn't use any flexible binding but only region or layer binding, and that person (I know who it was ...) didn't use the "Offset Bone" Tool as well.

So you are right and I just happened to find the exception.

Back to the original problem: we still need a command like "Clear all animation from document except frame # 1" or "from frame # a to # b".

toonertime · Post by **toonertime** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:30 pm

thanks for the help on pasting to frame zero

I did find a thread that helped me as well,
and I think I can make this work

thanks for the help!

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:47 am

It does not work within a file where one has used the "Offset Bone" Tool during construction, or which relies on flexible binding.

Nope. You've got to trust me on this.

If you use bone layer binding, flexible binding region binding...

IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE!

I am making a stink about this because it could cause trouble for people.

Pasting bone motion to frame 0 causes the bone's ORIGINAL position to change. Frame 0 is a SETUP frame. It doesn't matter if you don't use bone offset or not! I always use region binding. I also bind LAYERS to bones.

I have tested this 50 times today. Over and over. When pasting animation from a frame to frame 0 you are changing the bones original position which will effect the whole timeline and also the bones influence (region or flexible).

When I copy any bone motion from any other frame to frame 0 the file is CHANGED in a bad way. It screws up the bone rotation.

If you have a file with layer binding used then of course the layer will rotate with the bone and it will SEEM TO BE OKAY. But the file is now different. The bone's original rotation is changed. If you use any other type of bone influence the file will be "messed up" it will be different.

I should just wait for someone to do this and mess up their file and post about.

-vern