Moho Forum

Ah! I finally got it to crash.

I made a new project and imported an image layer with a different image. Then I created a vector layer with a circle and added the Image Effect with another different image. Moho remained stable as I manipulated the scene in 3D and switched layers.

Next, I added the Halo Effect on top of the Image Effect, and when I switched layers, Moho crashed.

I'm not sure if it was adding the effect that crashed it or something else. Maybe, it's a memory leak. I'll document this tomorrow and let the devs know.

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:01 am

I'm not sure if it was adding the effect that crashed it or something else. I Maybe, it's a memory leak. I'll document this tomorrow and let the devs know.

i have ran moho through microsoft visual studio before and got some results when crashed.

By the way, what are your system specs? Which OS, CPU, and graphics card? I'm mainly wondering how much RAM you have in the CPU and GPU?

This info might help the devs when I submit the ticket.

Update: I just saw your last post. I'll point the devs to this thread when I submit the ticket.

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:06 am By the way, what are your system specs? Which OS, CPU, and graphics card? I'm mainly wondering how much RAM you have in the CPU and GPU?

This info might help the devs when I submit the ticket.

Update: I just saw your last post. I'll point the devs to this thread when I submit the ticket.

Device name MSI
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10750H CPU @ 2.60GHz 2.59 GHz
Installed RAM 40.0 GB (39.8 GB usable)
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Windows 11

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:06 am ... I'll point the devs to this thread when I submit the ticket.

The issue is already reported: M14B-302. I have added the 3D space rotation to the documented issues. The core components of all issue references that I have seen is the: Tiled Texture + Layer Select (or Alt-RMB). If you change that texture to Don't Repeat - it appears to avoid the crashes.

Unfortunately - the crash reports from Windows are not useful.They don't contain the symbols info in the stack trace, and the errors are generic 'system' errors.

SimplSam wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 9:43 am The issue is already reported: M14B-302. I have added the 3D space rotation to the documented issues. The core components of all issue references that I have seen is the: Tiled Texture + Layer Select (or Alt-RMB). If you change that texture to Don't Repeat - it appears to avoid the crashes.

sadly tile texture is something i really need when i make a textured background. for instance like snow.

Hi, SimplSam! Thanks for checking and updating the report!

jeremiahbabers wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:17 pm sadly tile texture is something i really need when i make a textured background. for instance like snow.

Just a thought: Have you tried working with GPU Caching disabled in the Display Options? Moho's display engine was recently replaced, and this is known to have issues with some effects in 14.1. I'm wondering if switching it off might improve stability in this situation.

Let us know if this works. I'll try to check this myself later this morning.

(Shoot! It just occurred to me that I might need this effect in my current project. Guess I'll have to use an oversized image instead. That's not ideal, but may get the job done for now.)

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:31 pm

jeremiahbabers wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:17 pm sadly tile texture is something i really need when i make a textured background. for instance like snow.

Just a thought: Have you tried working with GPU Caching disabled in the Display Options? Moho's display engine was recently replaced, and this is known to have issues with some effects in 14.1. I'm wondering if switching it off might improve stability in this situation.

Let us know if this works. I'll try to check this myself later this morning.

(Shoot! It just occurred to me that I might need this effect in my current project. Guess I'll have to use an oversized image instead. That's not ideal, but may get the job done for now.)

i tested it and it still crashes with gpu caching off. also, im currently using an oversized images rn which isnt ideal because the resolution doesnt look good

Here's a workaround that works for me:

This morning, I took another look at my second project, the one that was consistently crashing last night.

This project still crashes when I select the layers from inside the Workspace (with Select Layer or Alt+R Click), but it is stable when I select the same layers from the Layers window.

Of course, selecting in the Layers Window can be less convenient than selecting directly in the Workspace, so I assigned the layers to buttons using Stan's Layer Selection Buttons.

Here's an example...



I worked with this for a couple of minutes, rotating the view and switching layers, and it hasn't crashed yet.

This setup is mainly useful when the layers are deeply nested in the Layers window. But if the layers are exposed at the top level (typically, Background or Foreground art layers), I would just click directly on the layer in the Layers Window.

Give it a try, and let me know if it works for you.

jeremiahbabers wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:17 pm ... sadly tile texture is something i really need when i make a textured background. for instance like snow.

I know it is a bit of a pain, but you could pre-create the tiled image on a big vector, then render that to PNG, then use that large pre-tiled image in the main project.

SimplSam wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:56 pm

jeremiahbabers wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:17 pm ... sadly tile texture is something i really need when i make a textured background. for instance like snow.

I know it is a bit of a pain, but you could pre-create the tiled image on a big vector, then render that to PNG, then use that large pre-tiled image in the main project.

i thought of that but thought i shouldnt need to do that. but i guess this is the only option untill this gets fixed

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:03 pm Here's a workaround that works for me:

This morning, I took another look at my second project, the one that was consistently crashing last night.

This project still crashes when I select the layers from inside the Workspace (with Select Layer or Alt+R Click), but it is stable when I select the same layers from the Layers window.

Of course, selecting in the Layers Window can be less convenient than selecting directly in the Workspace, so I assigned the layers to buttons using Stan's Layer Selection Buttons.

Here's an example...

I worked with this for a couple of minutes, rotating the view and switching layers, and it hasn't crashed yet.

This setup is mainly useful when the layers are deeply nested in the Layers window. But if the layers are exposed at the top level (typically, Background or Foreground art layers), I would just click directly on the layer in the Layers Window.

Give it a try, and let me know if it works for you.

this is a good workaground although its gonna take some getting used to. i already have that script installed yet i forgot i had it. im gonna wind up, by first instinct, select things using the layer selector and think "NO! uuggh...why didnt i use greenlaw's workaround" as I would then be staring at my desktop background. also i think sampson had a good point with the pretiled image method.

I just open the view to see roughly where everything is and then go back to the main view (reset view) and adjust it there. With the Layer selected: alt + shift - Left click drag up to move it back or down to move it forward. You can see the numbers change in the z axis text box at the top. Then you can look at the orbit view again. Just remember not to select anything whilst there