Whats up, Im new to this forum a friend referred me to the site and I hope you guys can help me.
Im a Christian artist
http://www.Kninemusic.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42cHenEhJg8
What Im looking to do is a album of Bible stories and have an accompanying DVD with a video/animation of each song for kids/adults.
For an idea of the song type and story pace,length see the ABOVE youtube link.
What I would like my videos to look like is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em5GUMkzMYE
Im not married to that idea but I really like it.
We'd be talking maybe 9/10 songs all 6 mins or so long
Im not a millionaire, Im an independent artist with no label backing, I just wanted estimates and possibly places where I can see your work. I know this will cost to get done but please if your estimate is in the 10 15 thousand range I dont have that kind of money and dont want to waste either of our time.
This project will be shown, seen by thousands of churches and people which could mean LOTS more work for you in the future!
Being a Christian is not mandatory, but it would help.
Thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing from you guys!!
Project Estimate
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
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Philly Phil
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:31 am
It's not very clear from your writing, but the last sentences indicate that you're looking for someone who does the animation for you, right?
Just to get this straight: you can't get quality for nothing, and work must be paid immediately, in cash, not in "seen by thousands of churches".
A 3 min job for a music video cannot be had for under 3.000 $, no matter which style - we're talking about american/european artists, who have to pay their rent as everybody else. 6 minutes a piece will be 6.000 $, 10 of those will be 60.000 $. If you don't have a record label with much money backing you, I'd advise you to forget the "whole album as a film" idea. Better concentrate on just one song and get visuals which don't look cheep.
No, I will not work for free or for the love of some god. I'd even charge you trice for the violent content and the message.
Just to get this straight: you can't get quality for nothing, and work must be paid immediately, in cash, not in "seen by thousands of churches".
A 3 min job for a music video cannot be had for under 3.000 $, no matter which style - we're talking about american/european artists, who have to pay their rent as everybody else. 6 minutes a piece will be 6.000 $, 10 of those will be 60.000 $. If you don't have a record label with much money backing you, I'd advise you to forget the "whole album as a film" idea. Better concentrate on just one song and get visuals which don't look cheep.
No, I will not work for free or for the love of some god. I'd even charge you trice for the violent content and the message.
Wow. I see you are not a "turn the other cheek" kind of Christian. (Or are you just talking about the style, and not the content?). I agree with slowtiger -- if you haven't got much money, don't spread it too thin -- make one short thing you can be proud of, rather than ten pieces of rubbish. There's plenty of that round already...
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
Re: Project Estimate
I just cannot decide whether this is an insult, or just plain stupid.Philly Phil wrote:Being a Christian is not mandatory, but it would help.
What has this to do with being a professional animator? If this is so important to him, I'd say he should stay among the bunch he's so comfortable with.
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Philly Phil
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:31 am
Thanks for your opinion Tiger, I appreciate you taking the time to read the post!! I didnt ask you to work for free or even work at all I just asked for an estimate.slowtiger wrote:It's not very clear from your writing, but the last sentences indicate that you're looking for someone who does the animation for you, right?
Just to get this straight: you can't get quality for nothing, and work must be paid immediately, in cash, not in "seen by thousands of churches".
A 3 min job for a music video cannot be had for under 3.000 $, no matter which style - we're talking about american/european artists, who have to pay their rent as everybody else. 6 minutes a piece will be 6.000 $, 10 of those will be 60.000 $. If you don't have a record label with much money backing you, I'd advise you to forget the "whole album as a film" idea. Better concentrate on just one song and get visuals which don't look cheep.
No, I will not work for free or for the love of some god. I'd even charge you trice for the violent content and the message.
Since the whole concept, and whatever I posted insulted you so much then I guess you'll be moving on to another thread then since this whole thing is so beneath you. I know how these message board back and forth things can get stupid so just PLEASE ignore any post/thread I make from now on thanks man!!
Also to any animators since I am new to the animation scene please disregard my price comment and just tell me what YOU think it would cost YOU to do it no matter how much it is just so I can get ball park and see what Im working with. I didnt mean it as an insult just had no clue as to how much it would cost. Thanks again guys!!
The forum gets a number of "I'm new to animation and want to make a 60 minute production" type newbie questions. Some of the old hands rightfully get a little jaded by it.
SlowT's comments are on the mark about the price. You are talking very serious money for that brief. Ignoring the cost, the time is very substantial, maybe a years work for an individual. The character design for that many films would take a month to do. Then there is the backgrounds and props, storyboards and approvals for same.
And who owns the royalties for the character designs - if its popular, your Christian mates will want to reproduce that on websites, t-shirts and the likes ... that falls into merchandising ... the mug who does this for cheap, is he/she going to get a cut of that to boost his low paycheck? Or is that your perk or a donation to the poor of the third world?
Not being cynical but this project needs to be thought out. My advice (like the others) is to do one, and make good and well ... there are plenty of rich Christians out there who have deep pockets, who if presented with a good idea, will back a production. Hell, there are even dedicated Christian TV channels out there who are looking for good material and have the funds to pay for it.
Make one, learn how animation production really works (it is time consuming and there are lots of processes to do which you currently have zero knowledge about).
And my advice is keep religion and business clearly separated - like mixing work and pleasure, they are very poor bed fellows. Can't speak for everyone here but of the other animators I know, most are into the drinking, cussing and loose wimmin. Me, I'm different, a total saint amongst incorrigible sinners
BTW, Slow Tiger has at least 15 years of animation experience under his belt that I know of, including the feature he and I worked on together in Berlin. And I shot my first animated film in 1968. There are a number of contributors here who have extensive film experience - we all continue to learn from each other, that learning curve has no end. Don't be too thin skinned if they occasionally poke you with a sharp stick for underestimating the workload/task in hand. They have spent too many hours making animation look easy when in fact, it's anything but.
There is good advice here which can point you in the right direction. Go with the flow and something might actually get made.
Rhoel
SlowT's comments are on the mark about the price. You are talking very serious money for that brief. Ignoring the cost, the time is very substantial, maybe a years work for an individual. The character design for that many films would take a month to do. Then there is the backgrounds and props, storyboards and approvals for same.
And who owns the royalties for the character designs - if its popular, your Christian mates will want to reproduce that on websites, t-shirts and the likes ... that falls into merchandising ... the mug who does this for cheap, is he/she going to get a cut of that to boost his low paycheck? Or is that your perk or a donation to the poor of the third world?
Not being cynical but this project needs to be thought out. My advice (like the others) is to do one, and make good and well ... there are plenty of rich Christians out there who have deep pockets, who if presented with a good idea, will back a production. Hell, there are even dedicated Christian TV channels out there who are looking for good material and have the funds to pay for it.
Make one, learn how animation production really works (it is time consuming and there are lots of processes to do which you currently have zero knowledge about).
And my advice is keep religion and business clearly separated - like mixing work and pleasure, they are very poor bed fellows. Can't speak for everyone here but of the other animators I know, most are into the drinking, cussing and loose wimmin. Me, I'm different, a total saint amongst incorrigible sinners
BTW, Slow Tiger has at least 15 years of animation experience under his belt that I know of, including the feature he and I worked on together in Berlin. And I shot my first animated film in 1968. There are a number of contributors here who have extensive film experience - we all continue to learn from each other, that learning curve has no end. Don't be too thin skinned if they occasionally poke you with a sharp stick for underestimating the workload/task in hand. They have spent too many hours making animation look easy when in fact, it's anything but.
There is good advice here which can point you in the right direction. Go with the flow and something might actually get made.
Rhoel
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Philly Phil
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:31 am
Thanks for the information, no thin skin here, I just dont have time for alot of back and forth thats all.
As far as royalties etc.etc. all of that can be worked out, again I never asked for anything free only for estimates.
Making one and presenting to potential investors was always my plan, however I would still need estimates and as soon as I get some along with some samples of the animators work (which is ALL I asked for) I can move forward.
I was hoping I would get more responses like:
Hi I'm tom, I looked at what you want and I can do something like that for $X,XXX per song, or $X,XXX for a whole project
You can see some of my work @ www.tomswork.com
If you are interested contact me @ Toms email.com and we can discuss it further.
Im sure slowtiger is great at what he does and hes been doing it a long time which is great as well, but that means nothing when hes telling me about not wanting to work for "some God" and "charging me thrice" and all of that, Im a mature man and just like to communicate like one thats all, Ive did the whole insult back and forth thing when I was a kid.
I just wanted some estimates thats all.
But I do appreciate the wealth of info Im getting thank you!!!
As far as royalties etc.etc. all of that can be worked out, again I never asked for anything free only for estimates.
Making one and presenting to potential investors was always my plan, however I would still need estimates and as soon as I get some along with some samples of the animators work (which is ALL I asked for) I can move forward.
I was hoping I would get more responses like:
Hi I'm tom, I looked at what you want and I can do something like that for $X,XXX per song, or $X,XXX for a whole project
You can see some of my work @ www.tomswork.com
If you are interested contact me @ Toms email.com and we can discuss it further.
Im sure slowtiger is great at what he does and hes been doing it a long time which is great as well, but that means nothing when hes telling me about not wanting to work for "some God" and "charging me thrice" and all of that, Im a mature man and just like to communicate like one thats all, Ive did the whole insult back and forth thing when I was a kid.
I just wanted some estimates thats all.
But I do appreciate the wealth of info Im getting thank you!!!
Re: Project Estimate
I don't think he was tryin to insult anybody. He was expressing a preference for animators familiar with the subject matter. Such familiarity would facilitate communication, I think.slowtiger wrote:I just cannot decide whether this is an insult, or just plain stupid.Philly Phil wrote:Being a Christian is not mandatory, but it would help.
What has this to do with being a professional animator? If this is so important to him, I'd say he should stay among the bunch he's so comfortable with.
For example, I once tried to get an illustration gig for some popular novels that were being turned into a card game. I tried reading the books, but hated them and tossed them aside. Had I been hired (I wasn't), the Art Director would've had to give me more information about each illustration than those artists who had read the books. Furthermore, had the Art Director made a mistake in describing the color of a character's shirt, for example, I would not have noticed it.
All that being said, Philly Phil could've stated a preference for someone familiar with the Christian religion and its symbols--a phrasing which would not discourage non-Christians or former-Christians from applying.
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Philly Phil
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:31 am
Re: Project Estimate
You're right, I should have phrased it differently, thank you, you are 100% correct in why I included the religion aspect in my post.tonym wrote:I don't think he was tryin to insult anybody. He was expressing a preference for animators familiar with the subject matter. Such familiarity would facilitate communication, I think.slowtiger wrote:I just cannot decide whether this is an insult, or just plain stupid.Philly Phil wrote:Being a Christian is not mandatory, but it would help.
What has this to do with being a professional animator? If this is so important to him, I'd say he should stay among the bunch he's so comfortable with.
For example, I once tried to get an illustration gig for some popular novels that were being turned into a card game. I tried reading the books, but hated them and tossed them aside. Had I been hired (I wasn't), the Art Director would've had to give me more information about each illustration than those artists who had read the books. Furthermore, had the Art Director made a mistake in describing the color of a character's shirt, for example, I would not have noticed it.
All that being said, Philly Phil could've stated a preference for someone familiar with the Christian religion and its symbols--a phrasing which would not discourage non-Christians or former-Christians from applying.
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Philly Phil
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:31 am
Okay, for costs: Do you have the music track, and a storyboard (rough or final) of what you want to do. Do you have the character sketches of what you want the principle characters to look like. Does the commissioned animator have to cost that in as well: My character designing is not good, so I employ a gifted (ex-disney) guy to do that for me; Once i have the designs, I am happy as a pig in muck, I can go play and make it work.
From that storyboard/production pack information, we can workout whether it's going to be $10 or $20 a second job. The maths are easy, 6 minutes x 60sec x $15 = $5,400.
If the animator is also going to be the director/character designer etc, that needs to be factored into the equation. Currently its a bit like asking someone to build a house, without an architect or building plans. At some stage, a blueprint or where we are going needs to be defined. Without it, you will be burning money needlessly.
One question - High-definition output? eg: 1080i60?
From that storyboard/production pack information, we can workout whether it's going to be $10 or $20 a second job. The maths are easy, 6 minutes x 60sec x $15 = $5,400.
If the animator is also going to be the director/character designer etc, that needs to be factored into the equation. Currently its a bit like asking someone to build a house, without an architect or building plans. At some stage, a blueprint or where we are going needs to be defined. Without it, you will be burning money needlessly.
One question - High-definition output? eg: 1080i60?
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Philly Phil
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:31 am
Thanks alot Rhoel !!
I found someone to help me on this project!
I really appreciate the time that you and everyone else took to help break it down and help me understand what the animation process entails.
For the future, I realize there are alot of old salty animation dogs in here probably jaded from months/years of people making posts like mines. But understand most people who want to get animation done have no idea what it takes to get it done they just come here with a idea/dream that they want animated, with that being said, jumping all over the person, posting snide remarks, letting them know just how uninformed / naive they are, could be intimidating, and turn potential clients away. The person whos doing my job was super cool, sent me a PM, schooled me on what I needed, what it would cost, (which is all I asked for) and is going to get my business. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar
Maybe a sticky would be good just telling people the basics of a animation project, what they need, time it takes, price ranges, etc.etc. so people wont sound so dumb when they come here.
Besides its not our fault you guys make it look so easy!!
Thanks again!!
I found someone to help me on this project!
I really appreciate the time that you and everyone else took to help break it down and help me understand what the animation process entails.
For the future, I realize there are alot of old salty animation dogs in here
probably jaded from months/years of people making posts like mines. But understand most people who want to get animation done have no idea what it takes to get it done they just come here with a idea/dream that they want animated, with that being said, jumping all over the person, posting snide remarks, letting them know just how uninformed / naive they are, could be intimidating, and turn potential clients away. The person whos doing my job was super cool, sent me a PM, schooled me on what I needed, what it would cost, (which is all I asked for) and is going to get my business. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar Maybe a sticky would be good just telling people the basics of a animation project, what they need, time it takes, price ranges, etc.etc. so people wont sound so dumb when they come here.
Besides its not our fault you guys make it look so easy!!
Thanks again!!