Moho Forum

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:15 pm**

When I got Moho 13.5, the 3D support seems to be gone. There is no docking light or bitmap colour, and i cannot create a 3d layer anymore. There are also no bitmap tools either. Is this a mistake?

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:27 pm**

GHOSTYMPA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:15 pm When I got Moho 13.5, the 3D support seems to be gone. There is no docking light or bitmap colour, and i cannot create a 3d layer anymore. There are also no bitmap tools either. Is this a mistake?

Unfortunately - those features were removed for now in 13.5, as 13.5 was based on an upgrade from 12, rather than an upgrade from 13 - due to issues with 13.

Víctor Paredes wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:23 am Some more news about the beta:
As you know, we had to work over a previous version of the code in order to make it compatible with Big Sur and also to be able to work in an environment that allows us to work fast and add new features quicker.
To make this work, we had to remove the bitmap drawing feature from version 13 and bring the Actions window and the 3D options back to the way they worked before that version.
Our plan is to work in better drawing tools in the future, but we want to spend more time on developing them to be sure we can give you something powerful and useful.
We know this can be an issue for some users and we are sorry about it. It was a hard decision to make, but we really believe it’s the best for the future of Moho.

About 13.5, we are working hard to have everything ready soon. It has some big new features that make Moho more powerful than ever. I can’t say anything else for now, but I’m sure you will enjoy the new possibilities.

All the best,
Víctor and the Lost Marble team.

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:32 pm**

GHOSTYMPA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:15 pm When I got Moho 13.5, the 3D support seems to be gone. There is no docking light or bitmap colour, and i cannot create a 3d layer anymore. There are also no bitmap tools either. Is this a mistake?

It's not a mistake. The new team (Lost Marble) had to start developing this new version from 12.5 because Moho 13 had major problems introduced by Smith Micro, so some Moho 13 features like 3D layers and bitmap drawing have been lost. They plan on incorporate them properly over time. That's why Moho 13.5 is totally free for Moho 13 owners, and at a reduced price for Moho 12 owners. More on the official comunicate by Victor Paredes:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33689

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:46 pm**

Hi,

My understanding is that these features were removed because their implementation in 13.0 conflicted with Lost Marble's plans for future Moho development. I think the new team wants to evaluate these and other 13.0 features, and they may possibly introduce better versions of them in the future. I know that might make some users unhappy but, IMO, many of the new features that were added to 13.0 were not completed and did not work very well.

In Moho 13.5, on the other hand, Vitruvian Bones, Quad Mesh system, Wind dynamics, Select All Shapes, and other new features, do work very well, and these are features I will actually use in production. I had the lucky opportunity to try Moho 13.5 for a few weeks, and I already feel this is a more solid release than 13.0 was.

Moho is back and I'm very please with this latest version!

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:11 pm**

Looks like I will keep the 13 version too, so I can switch between these versions according to what I want to do.

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:47 pm**

IMO, I don't think that's a good idea. the Smart Bones Actions system in Moho 13.0 was very broken because they changed how the Actions were internally identified. These setups will probably have problems after importing to Moho 13.5, and may require a extra work to fix.

After these problems came to light, I pretended Moho 13.0 never existed and reverted to Moho 12.5 for production work.

Moho 12.5 project files, on the other hand, work fine in Moho 13.5. Even my Layer Shortcuts setups have transferred perfectly to 13.5!

TBH, I'm not sure there's any reason to keep 13.0 installed unless it's to export Moho 13.0 files to Moho 12.5 format.

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:56 pm**

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:47 pm TBH, I'm not sure there's any reason to keep 13.0 installed unless it's to export Moho 13.0 files to Moho 12.5 format.

I agree. If you need bitmap tools or 3D, any other app does better than 13.0 did.

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:01 pm**

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:47 pm IMO, I don't think that's a good idea. the Smart Bones Actions system in Moho 13.0 was very broken because they changed how the Actions were internally identified. These setups will probably have problems after importing to Moho 13.5, and may require a extra work to fix.

After these problems came to light, I pretended Moho 13.0 never existed and reverted to Moho 12.5 for production work.

Moho 12.5 project files, on the other hand, work fine in Moho 13.5. Even my Layer Shortcuts setups have transferred perfectly to 13.5!

TBH, I'm not sure there's any reason to keep 13.0 installed unless it's to export Moho 13.0 files to Moho 12.5 format.

Me too, I am so relieved after downloading the version 13.5. The version 13 was like burden to me, didn’t know what to do with it. Using V13 caused problem, either hard to throw it away .

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:16 pm**

synthsin75 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:56 pm
Greenlaw wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:47 pm TBH, I'm not sure there's any reason to keep 13.0 installed unless it's to export Moho 13.0 files to Moho 12.5 format.
I agree. If you need bitmap tools or 3D, any other app does better than 13.0 did.

Those two features were so far from fully baked in 13 it was silly. Glad to see them not cluttering up the system. The 13.5 added features are way more targeted to Moho animators instead of being marketing tools I never much saw anyone use.

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:25 pm**

My hope is that bitmap painting will return someday, but with a more elegant UI and complete toolset.

In the meantime, Moho 13.5's new Quad Mesh and Quad Perspective systems are giving us more interesting and fun ways to animate imported bitmap artwork.

Posted: **Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:58 am**

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:47 pm IMO, I don't think that's a good idea. the Smart Bones Actions system in Moho 13.0 was very broken because they changed how the Actions were internally identified. These setups will probably have problems after importing to Moho 13.5, and may require a extra work to fix.

After these problems came to light, I pretended Moho 13.0 never existed and reverted to Moho 12.5 for production work.

Moho 12.5 project files, on the other hand, work fine in Moho 13.5. Even my Layer Shortcuts setups have transferred perfectly to 13.5!

TBH, I'm not sure there's any reason to keep 13.0 installed unless it's to export Moho 13.0 files to Moho 12.5 format.

I'll be posting a video on my YouTube about this issue.
It is a good idea to keep both for the moment ( just in case), if you work with a lot of images, just don't make any actions folders, that was the big error in V13,
It may have good use when importing images, but if you move to 13.5 and start adding Vbones, don't switch back.
The feature that converts layers to pngs (on import) was actually much safer than using a PSD which is potentially very dangerous and can get get messy.( If you converted one layer at a time, inside the program, after import or created new bitmap layers, it did save the image to a silly place next to the Moho file rather than the images folder, but this could be a super easy fix and not insurmountable by any means)...

Some may want to argue, fine, but my point is valid regardless.

Posted: **Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:11 am**

I understand the process of going back to something healthier and more stable.
Then we have to see if owners of Moho 13.0 can both install 13.0 and 13.5 if they really lack these functions.
I also hope that these new features introduced in Moho 13.0 will be reintroduced in a free version of type 13.9 or something like that.
Because it would be abusive to sell in a version 14 something that already existed before.

Posted: **Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:25 am**

Lychee wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:11 am I understand the process of going back to something healthier and more stable.
Then we have to see if owners of Moho 13.0 can both install 13.0 and 13.5 if they really lack these functions.
I also hope that these new features introduced in Moho 13.0 will be reintroduced in a free version of type 13.9 or something like that.
Because it would be abusive to sell in a version 14 something that already existed before.

I have both and 13.5 is the same as 12 and before in regards to handling images, I have used 13 extensively.
As I said I will outline the differences very soon ( in the image handling I mean), the 3D tools in 13 were not useful.

Edit :typo.

Posted: **Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:42 am**

chucky wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:25 am I have both and 13.5 is the same as 12 and before in regards to handling images, I have used 13 extensively.
As I said I will outline the differences very soon ( in the image handling I mean), the 2d tools in 13 were not useful.

I assume you meant 'the 3D tools in 13 were not useful'..

But given that the O/P posted about the loss of the Bitmap & 3D tools, and there are others lamenting the same on social media. It is fair to say some people found them useful as part of their workflow. I personally have no reliance on either, but would like to in enhanced future versions. Fortunately - they can continue to use 13 side-by-side with 13.5 for those type of Bitmap/3D projects - until something better comes along or they change their workflow.

Posted: **Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:50 am**

It's always unfortunate when features are lost. Especially if you used those features a lot...
But what we got in return is a lot more powerful and more in line with Moho's core strengths. Personally I'm really happy with this direction! 13.5 is very stable and hasn't broken any projects like 13.0 did.

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