moho 13.5.1 hates pen display tablets.

[eric1223]

not only does the erase doesn't work on the pen anymore (unless you assign ctrl to the eraser side of you pen. this is also true for my regular tablet), but the U.I freezes when you try to adjust the layer panel panel while using the pen. For this to glitch to work, the layer panel has to be docked.

All of the other panels will be adjustable, drop down menus will pop up, but you can't select anything from them. To make it work again, I will have to restart it.

I'm using the cintiq 16 display tablet at the moment.

I'm gonna run some tests and post what I find.

[eric1223]

!!!! With the Cintiq 16, There are ZERO issues when the layer panel is undocked. In fact, there is no lag at all with the pen or the mouse. There would always be lag either way when docked.

!!!! Not having Hanging U.I Problem with my non pen display, Wacom Intuos Pro. The pen adjusts it like normal.

!!!! Toggle Display doesn't matter.

!!!! There is a workaround when it is docked. First I'll explain the issue, then the solution....

The Layer Panel sorta works OK when you are are expanding the layer panel (pulling it towards the canvas) It lags though. But if you try to shrink it (push it back), it will do what I described. BUT if you don't feel like restarting it, you have to expand the layer panel the furthest it can go, then you can shrink it.

!!!! If the U.I is frozen, the mouse won't be able to undo the problem unless you do what I mentioned above.

If I find anything else, I'll post it under here. I really want this tablet to work.

Note: This is a unique problem that is only with to Moho so far.

[Daxel]

I just tested it and I reproduced that bug with my huion graphic tablet too. Just expanding the layers panel to the left freezed the UI and had to close the program. But for some reason the second, third and fourth time I tried to reproduce it I couldn't.

The problems I have with my graphic tablet on Moho 13.5.1, that I don't have in Moho 12.5 or any other software, are related to the use of modifier keys, because when I hold a keyboard key while I use the pen, the program lags a lot or doesn't do the intended result.

The most clear and problematic case for me (at that point, but I discovered quite a few more bugs that I've been adding below) is the zoom that you can do holding shift + right click and moving the mouse or pen to the left or right to zoom in or out. That shortcut is super necesary when using the program with a pen and super comfortable. But since Moho 13.5 it doesn't work well, when I try to zoom in the zoom goes in and out very fast and I can't make it work. I discovered a workaround: I can hold shift + right click but then when the bug appears I release only the shift key and keep holding the right click and the zoom works, but it's not comfortable and is not how it should work. Can you test if this happens to you too? Also the view rotation, that you can do using ctrl+rightclick it's also buggy: the view rotates but when you stop holding the rightclick the view comes back to its previous position.

And in general pressing any keyboard key while using the pen produces more lag than doing it with the mouse or doing it with on Moho 12.5. For example, holding the select tool key and clicking and dragging to make a selection is unusable with the pen. With the mouse it always lagged a little bit more than using the tool normally (without holding its key) but much less, its usable. With the pen is not. (this is solved using the program that Wes made, look below)

Moho 13.5 uses Windows Ink to make the pens work. If you don't activate windows ink, the pen will work just as a mouse (and the zooming bug won't happen) but it will only work as a mouse because you lose the pressure and tilt sensitivity.

With Moho 12.5 you can disable Windows Ink and the pressure sensitivity works perfectly, and these bugs are not there. But even if you activate windows ink, it still works well (I just did the test), pressure sensitivity is ok and there is no zooming bug.

Edit: Another pen-related bug: Today I saw that I can't open de menus (File, Edit, etc) left-clicking on them with the pen on Moho 13.5.1 with windows ink enabled. I can only do it right-clicking. Restarted Moho but the problem persists. Disabling windows ink solves the problem at the price of not having pressure sensitivity.

Edit: Another pen tablet and windows ink related bug: using freehand or add point tool with the pen, 99% of my strokes get an extra point added to the beggining of the stroke, sometimes as an independent point and sometimes as part of the main stroke.
Only on Moho 13.5.1, and only with windows ink enabled.
I disabled de autokey fix just to be sure, but it is not related. I restarted the computer but the problem persists.

As I don't see any workarround this time, at this point I can't use my graphic tablet to work on Moho 13.5.1.

Edit: added the view rotation shortcut bug and Wes' solution to the holding tools problem.

[synthsin75]

And in general pressing any keyboard key while using the pen produces more lag than doing it with the mouse or doing it with on Moho 12.5. For example, holding the select tool key and clicking and dragging to make a selection is unusable with the pen. With the mouse it always lagged a little bit more than using the tool normally (without holding its key) but much less, its usable. With the pen is not.

If you're on Windows, you might try this fix I wrote for lagging when a key is held: https://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewto ... 81#p168081

[Daxel]

And in general pressing any keyboard key while using the pen produces more lag than doing it with the mouse or doing it with on Moho 12.5. For example, holding the select tool key and clicking and dragging to make a selection is unusable with the pen. With the mouse it always lagged a little bit more than using the tool normally (without holding its key) but much less, its usable. With the pen is not.

If you're on Windows, you might try this fix I wrote for lagging when a key is held: https://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewto ... 81#p168081

Thank you! holding tools works perfectly now. So well that I will probably change my keybindings to take advantage of how well this works now.

Sadly, the shift+rightclick zomming problem with the pen is still there on 13.5.1 if windows ink is activated (and pressure sen won't work otherwise). So it seems to be a different bug related with how Moho handles modifier keys+clicks (maybe rightclicks specifically) with pens. It's not only the zooming; the view rotation, that you can do using ctrl+rightclick it's also buggy: the view rotates but when you stop holding the rightclick the view comes back to its previous position. Those two shortcuts are very useful when working with a graphic tablet. The rightclick by itself seems to work well, only gives problems when combined with a modifier key.

[synthsin75]

Have you tried turning down the keyboard repeat rate, to see if it helps with the modifier keys? If it does, I might be able to add those to the lag fix.

[Daxel]

Have you tried turning down the keyboard repeat rate, to see if it helps with the modifier keys? If it does, I might be able to add those to the lag fix.

Didn't know that was a thing. Tried that and changing the repeat delay too, but the bug is still there. Using the mouse it doesn't happen so it seems related to the way it handles the pen.

[synthsin75]

Have you tried turning down the keyboard repeat rate, to see if it helps with the modifier keys? If it does, I might be able to add those to the lag fix.

Didn't know that was a thing. Tried that and changing the repeat delay too, but the bug is still there. Using the mouse it doesn't happen so it seems related to the way it handles the pen.

Too bad. I was hoping to kill two bugs with one fix.

[mgo]

It is probably something that occurs on Windows systems. I have a Wacom Cintiq 16, too, which is hooked up to a Macbook Air M1. I can use the pen in Moho without problems. Also interesting, out of the box there is no lag when holding down hotkeys for temporary tool switching.

[synthsin75]

It is probably something that occurs on Windows systems. I have a Wacom Cintiq 16, too, which is hooked up to a Macbook Air M1. I can use the pen in Moho without problems. Also interesting, out of the box there is no lag when holding down hotkeys for temporary tool switching.

Yeah, both are specifically Windows problems.

[Daxel]

It is probably something that occurs on Windows systems. I have a Wacom Cintiq 16, too, which is hooked up to a Macbook Air M1. I can use the pen in Moho without problems. Also interesting, out of the box there is no lag when holding down hotkeys for temporary tool switching.

Yeah, both are specifically Windows problems.

Yes, but the zooming and rotating view with the pen problems are not present in Moho 12.5 even having Windows Ink enabled, so I have hopes on a fix from Moho.

[eric1223]

I tested this on 13 too, but The U.I. Didn't freeze. I'm starting to think that the removal of the 32 bit support did more than effect audio and video. Maybe it somehow messed with how tablets work as well?

[synthsin75]

Yeah, both are specifically Windows problems.

Yes, but the zooming and rotating view with the pen problems are not present in Moho 12.5 even having Windows Ink enabled, so I have hopes on a fix from Moho.

Sorry, I meant Moho on Windows, not Windows itself.

[Greenlaw]

My guess is that it has to do with recent changes MS made to Windows Ink. This always seems to mess up various tablet devices and programs, whether they use Windows Ink or not.

Most recently, it affected Moho 13.5 where, with Ink enabled, I couldn't use right-ciick in a specific area of Moho, and if I disabled it, I got right-click back but I no longer had pen pressure. (Moho 13.5.1 fixes this issue this, btw.)

I need to check if I'm seeing these other tablet issues here (I have a few different tablets I can test with, including Wacom and Huion,) and will let the devs know if I find anything. At very least, I'll point them to this thread later.

One way or another, I hope these tablet issues can be addressed.

[SimplSam]

Just to add some more stats with Win 10 + 13.5.1 + XP-Pen + Windows Ink:

• Layers Panel:
  - Can drag-resize left (wider). Can't drag-resize right (narrower)
  - Mouse cursor gets stuck as: <-> after dragging + sometimes becomes unusable
  - Drag resizing anything except Layers seems OK
  - **Note: Dragging Layers by the topmost title/icon/filter section is OK (i.e. if I avoid the actual layers or field title-bar section)

• Modifier keys (w/ Key Delay previously adjusted):
  - long-press <key> + any pen action: Works and performance as expected
  - <none>|alt|shift|ctrl + right-click pen: All work as expected

In summary - I only seem to have issue with the Layers panel width adjustment, when drag resizing the lower/main sub-panel.