On Political Content

[Lost Marble]

Yesterday there was a thread on this forum that was particularly divisive and even led to some personal attacks between members of the forum. You may have seen it. If not, lucky you!

There's a long tradition of political commentary and satire by way of comics and animation. Sometimes it makes a valid point by poking fun at a politician or a government, and sometimes it can be overly divisive. I don't want to automatically ban all political content here, but let's avoid things that are critical of groups of people or perpetuate falsehoods.

My highest priority for this forum is that everyone feels welcome, safe, and accepted here. I'm pretty sure I disagree with some of you on political and social issues. Maybe we'd even get into strong arguments in person. But I also know we all like making and watching animation. And maybe that's enough for us to come together here.

One other thing: I want to thank our moderators. Whether you agree with them or not, it's mostly a hard, thankless job. Most of the time they're pruning out Spam. I believe in them and think they're doing a good job. Sometimes there are hard calls where there may not be a clear, correct answer. I believe their intentions are good - please don't ascribe malicious intent when things get tricky.

-Mike

P.S.
I'm not going to block comments here, but I will if things get nasty. Maybe we can get back to Moho and animation topics. I've got something really exciting in the works, but I ended up spending the day fretting about how and when to moderate discussions. Bummer. Víctor probably doesn't want me to leak a spoiler video, so I'll try to be careful.

[DK]

It's ok Mike. you can tell me I won't say anything to anyone
Cheers
D.K

[sang820]

Well, let's get back to the technical side.

[chucky]

I've got something really exciting in the works, Víctor probably doesn't want me to leak a spoiler video, so I'll try to be careful.

Well I missed the political nastiness, I didn't have popcorn anyway, but I glad I didn't miss this! Even if it is excruciating.
If you wanted to punish us, this tease does the trick.

[synthsin75]

Thank you, Mike. Now back to our normally scheduled friendly forum.

[SimplSam]

Static file animated in Moho (of course)

[strider2000]

Thanks for all the time you take to make the forum enjoyable and safe for all. That support helps me want to stay involved. Here, let's focus on the animation we are all interested in and take other discussions, even if they're highly valuable, elsewhere.

[SuperSGL]

Whoa whoa...we can still make fun of Trump right?

[Maestral]

I'm pretty sure I disagree with some of you on political and social issues. Maybe we'd even get into strong arguments in person. But I also know we all like making and watching animation. And maybe that's enough for us to come together here.

Yesterday. Contemplating all day. Right. I hear you and I appreciate your amicable approach.
Today I learned that Serbia earned #1 in Europe (although not a member of EU) and #2 in the world by cancer fatalities.

These numbers are dedicated to my fellow neighbours and countryman.
Is this forum for galaxy members or just us, earthlings?

During the nato bombing in '99, cassettes of depleted uranium were dropped upon us.
Do you find anything divisive on this matter? Do you find it political? Am I welcomed here or just not disposed to radiation? Yet.

As many philosophers concluded, atrocities occur when decent people turn their heads away.
Your turn, mate

p.s.
From one of the pilots
"I've never seen more beautiful landscape"
Obviously, an idiot, since these figures would speak differently

The whole bunch of troops deployed in Serbia, after the bombing, due to sudden and inexplicable illness won the court cases for retribution

If you oppose this with 'neutrality' - I might not be the one you'd like to meet in person. Arguments wise, of course.

p.p.s
One might ask why am I reviving the topic now. In these past few days I've received notifications about "that" thread but the link would lead to a blank forum list.

[chucky]

I'm sure no one is trying to silence anybody.
There are plenty of more appropriate fora for politics and, or trolling, this one dedicated to animation.

If your were at a restaurant and the waiter asked if they could take your order, you wouldn't rattle off a list of atrocities from around the world.
That would be taking advantage of the fact that someone was listening, just to grind an axe.
The audience is a stranger who may have been impacted by any number of those events listed, past or present.
Right now they have a job to do and don't need to be upset and harassed, while they bring you food.
It would be selfish, insensitive and inappropriate.

But this is not a restaurant, it's an animation forum where we help and encourage each other, giving us the tools to tell stories better.

You do bring up an good point though about telling stories.
Your story example could be well told in an animation, enlightening the viewer and building bridges to heal divides, or handled crudely and achieve nothing positive.
When story telling is handled poorly, without respect and sensitivity (cultural, personal), the opposite can happen as we saw.

It doesn't mean there can't be humour, parody or brutal honesty.
It just takes skill, like animation.

I think we should have a section on story telling at Lost Marble.
It is one thing to wield a pen, just careful not to fall on it. ( you might break it)

Edited to fix the usual typos

[synthsin75]

Yeah, there's a difference between telling a politically or historically oriented story and trolling or insulting people. If, for instance, you were to tell a historical story, but twist or leave out important information to defame someone, that wouldn't likely be something you'd really need to share here. But there are plenty of places better designed for that kind of content, where political commentary and debate is encouraged. I doubt anyone here wants to derail this forum with such.

So like Chucky said, there's just more suitable places for some conversations. A discussion about one's sobriety is much better suited to a support group meeting than a birthday party or a business meeting. I think we're just interested in not bringing the overall mood of the forum down with stuff that has better outlets elsewhere. Many of us would probably agree that politics has infected (no pun intended) too many aspects of life as it is.

[Lost Marble]

Yep, I really don't want to silence anybody. I was trying to figure out what exactly to say, but I think others have already responded more eloquently than I was going to anyway.

My main thing here is: let's treat each other with respect and not insult or attack groups of people. This isn't a forum for discussing politics or world events, but neither do I want to silence anyone who isn't attacking or insulting individuals or groups of people.

[Maestral]

Many of us would probably agree that politics has infected (no pun intended) too many aspects of life as it is.

Exactly my point here.
Even if I would make some animation in regards to such a subject, posting it here would require certain technical or artistic aspects for which I'd like to hear feedback here, not the topic itself.
As toxic as it is, I prefer not to bring such topics to any conversation.

However, I'd never encouraged nor greeted "the blows below the belt". Quite opposed to such behaviour whether metaphorically or literally. But if it hits and it hits hard...

"Tough luck, mate. Deal with it."
Sure. That's life and it applies to us all. Or does it?

[hayasidist]

Big problem is that the same acts/opinions can be see as "fighting for freedom" or as "terrorism" / "sedition" / "antisocial activism" / "persecution of opponents" ... depending on whether you agree or disagree with them.

History, and the present day, is littered with examples. I can't imagine that any faction or country, past or present, can honestly claim to be without a stain on their moral report card when it comes to balancing "freedom" against "societal acceptability".

If you're going to lampoon / satirise someone or something, IMO it's vital to clearly signal humorous intent, and to provide some semblance of balance -- neither excessively condemning nor condoning.

Of course, there are topics that really ought never to be used as the source of intended humour, and there are topics that will enrage even the usually most tolerant and placid of souls: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60261876

and that's where lines are crossed -- a satirist failing to take adequate consideration of the sensitivity of the subject; failing to make it clear that it is satire; failing to make the humour strong enough to take the sting out of the lampooning.

Just as a footnote, many nursery rhymes had their origins as satirical comment which, had the originator not sufficiently wrapped the message in levity, could have seen them sentenced to death: https://www.rhymes.org.uk/nursery-rhyme.htm


My take on this: Political comment is a minefield: tread carefully or don't tread!

[Maestral]

My take on this: Political comment is a minefield: tread carefully or don't tread!

The bombing I've had mentioned lasted almost 3 months. Deploying cassettes of depleted uranium over another country is a premeditated act and I believe justifying it would be difficult, even on the court. As the mentioned figures indicate, thousands of children were deliberately sentenced to horrific death and demise.

The whole operation was called Merciful Angel.

Not all members of the alliance took part in it. Not all soldiers agreed and refused to take part.
A group of people decided such action is appropriate and conducted it.

Allow me to make an important distinction - those are representatives. Employees.
You, me and all of us are their employers. Represented ones.

We all live in a world in which that particular group of people has monuments erected. Gained some public glorification and decorations.

* * * * *

This is an extreme example but ever since even more ridiculous decisions were made and conducted. Relativization is one of the approaches to the subject. Your undeniable right to present your opinion or stand.

You may think of me as some deranged, logorrheic lunatic. Again, your undeniable right.
You could as well level those demised children with sobriety groups. AFAIK, members of such groups were not forced to consume their 'poison'. But still, your undeniable right.

Above all - being a nationalist, patriot or simply a person in love with their country - I can't really find an issue here. Here's the thing - quite often chauvinism is mistaken for either of those virtues. Pretty much the same happens with racism and similar deviation from being simply enamoured with your country, culture and fellow countryman. So, once we call things by their true name - there is a lot less room for misunderstanding if any.

So, you could as well express your concern about the level of emotional distress of those mentioned groups of people - your undeniable right.