Moho Forum

Still not back on beta team for some reason so I'll post here. There is a bug in 13.5.4 when drawing frames other than on zero when you add a single point it auto adds a second offset point in odd places or if you use the pencil it draws offset. The offset seems to increase when moving farther from the center of the screen. This only seems to effect drawing on vectors that are nested in bone layers that have been translated.

It seems the points you are drawing are bound to the bones influence while you are drawing. If bone influence was did not effect the drawing tools when drawing until the after the lines are placed I think this would fix the issue?

Videos of this below.

Wow, that's really weird, but I'm not seeing this issue at all here.

Are you using a Wacom pen? I understand some work was done to solve a different Wacom issue so maybe something got broken? I normally work with a mouse in Moho but let me check...I'm back...no, Wacom pen here isn't doing that either.

The next thing I'd check is Windows Display scaling. Try setting it to 100% and see if that fixes the issue. The 100% setting might not be ideal for your setup but check it anyway to see if this is causing the problem.

Yikes!
I guess it would be great if the bone's influence was off by default and then the offsets are calculated upon binding.
Then when animating on the fly new drawings could be made in place.

I guess the only answer would be to turn off influence,

actually, after a quick check I realised that if you deselect all bones then you can draw without that offset happening, it does makes sense.

Ooh actually, I'm seeing some weird results. Many make sense but some are very strange, all when under the influence of a bone. One layer behaves differently to another.

Drawing in Moho on top of moving rigs isn't a traditional method that would work in Moho, because of the offset thing. However, if it DID work like that, we could do some fantastic rig and fbf techniques that could make for some cool animation, and a good alternative from the also very valuable Vitruvian method.

It's the expected behavior. Outside frame zero, drawing tools can't work properly if the vector layer is affected by bones' animation.
You can bind the vector layer to a specific bone to get what you are expecting.

Greenlaw wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 4:22 pm Wow, that's really weird, but I'm not seeing this issue at all here.

Are you using a Wacom pen? I understand some work was done to solve a different Wacom issue so maybe something got broken? I normally work with a mouse in Moho but let me check...I'm back...no, Wacom pen here isn't doing that either.

The next thing I'd check is Windows Display scaling. Try setting it to 100% and see if that fixes the issue. The 100% setting might not be ideal for your setup but check it anyway to see if this is causing the problem.

No that is just with a mouse. Same issue with wacom as was. Scale is at 100% as well. This is when not drawing on frame zero on a layer with bones that have been offset. Even happens on included demo projects.

Víctor Paredes wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 4:52 pm It's the expected behavior. Outside frame zero, drawing tools can't work properly if the vector layer is affected by bones' animation.
You can bind the vector layer to a specific bone to get what you are expecting.

If I want to draw on a non zero frame to say add a detail to a rig or add a hand in a switch you are saying that the expected behavior is that the drawing tool draws in places my mouse is not? this does not seem like it would be the expectation of the end user. While I understand it may be expected based on how things are currently calculated under the hood it simply feels broken and unusable in this use case.

Yes, this is expected behavior, as the drawing tools must show what the result is on a frame where the vectors are influenced by bones. Otherwise, you couldn't add vectors that account for how the bones are warping them. You'd just have to guess at what the result of the bone animation might be.

If you don't want to bind the layer to a single bone, as Victor suggests, you can also just mute the bone animation channels while you add the new vectors.

The thing is that, in the tests I'm doing, I can draw normaly on non-zero on layers that are binded to an animated bone and also in those that have their points binded to an animated bone. I think this problem is only happening when we use the bone offset tool, like x-vishon, right?


Edit: oh yeah it also happens when the bones have force. I usually avoid that and rely on point binding.

Then I don't really care because I don't use flexibinding or bone offset, but I have to agree with x-vishon that even if the behaviour is expected, this particular use case feels broken and unusable. Like Chucky, I have the feeling that it could be solved but I don't know, maybe it's too dificult to be worth it right now. But yeah with vitruvian bones and specially if we end getting the hand drawing and frame by frame improvements that are so wanted, being able to draw properly on non-zero frames will be pretty relevant I think.