Video editor with z axis movement

[FoundPebble]

Hi, I am trying to make a moving animatic. Something where each frame doesn't have much movement from pose to pose, but the images themselves are stil dragged and stretched across the screen. I can't really use an animation program for this because I'm going to make each key pose in a drawing program, save as a png, and reuse some of them if necessary. I don't want to have a million layers and then slow down or crash the program. I'd rather just import the pictures into an editor and put them on the timeline. Something like what storytime animators do.
I am looking for a video editor or compositor that can move a plane on the x, y, and Z axis. Most basic ones, from what I have seen can only move planes on the x and y axis. What I need is a program that can move an object towards and away from the camera on the z axis like an object zig zagging between other objects.
I know Adobe After Effects can do this really easily but I’d have to pay a subscription. I’m looking for something that is non subscription based even if I have to pay between $100 to about $300 one time. Free is preferable though.
The other program I know that can do this is DaVinci Resolve. However, I’d have to use the fusion tab to do this which means connecting all these nodes together. I’d like to avoid fusion unless it is a last resort.
I’m looking for something simple, either with a 3D camera, something with multiple views like after effects, or anything that isn’t a hassle to do something that sounds simple.
I’ve been looking on Google and YouTube searching individual programs with no luck. If anybody is able to help me find anything, that will be a real big help.

[FoundPebble]

I thought of hitfilm free as one option, which has everything I need but zoom in and out apparently. I looked at all the features comparison on the website, and it seems like just zooming in and out is watermarked. I hope I am wrong because I'm pretty sure that is a basic thing most editing softwares should be able to do. I know alot of stuff is watermarked there, but I was okay with giving most of those features up as a trade off for having a free version of a program, but I can't with zooming.

[Greenlaw]

I thought of hitfilm free as one option, which has everything I need but zoom in and out apparently. I looked at all the features comparison on the website, and it seems like just zooming in and out is watermarked. I hope I am wrong because I'm pretty sure that is a basic thing most editing softwares should be able to do. I know alot of stuff is watermarked there, but I was okay with giving most of those features up as a trade off for having a free version of a program, but I can't with zooming.

I thought of suggesting HitFilm. I don't use it but it seems very After Effects-like in that it's layers based rather than nodal, and it's relatively inexpensive. HitFilm probably supports a 3D environment, I'm almost certain of that.

FYI, Z-position and zooming are two very different things. Z-position is the actual item positioning in depth in 3D space, and zooming is a lens property of the camera. In other words, z-position is physically moving objects positions, but zooming doesn't require anything to be moved, it's just animateable lens setting. Also, because nothing physically changes in the scene when you zoom, you don't see the parallax effect like when you physically move the camera or objects (in other words, zooming looks just like 2D image scaling.)

I believe these days most animation and compositing programs have 3D environments these days, and some video editing programs do as well. For example Moho's workspace is a 3D environment, so you might consider doing the 'motion comics' panning, dollying, zooming effects there and importing the shot to your video editor (assuming your video editor is unable to do this kind of animation.)

Hope this helps.

[FoundPebble]

I know zooming and positioning are two different things, but I meant that zooming is another vital feature I need and it seems like most editors can do that. However, I don't really want to be switching back and forth from Hitfilm to another program just to zoom in and out.

[FoundPebble]

I was thinking about doing it in moho, but that would result in many layers, even for a short scene, because the characters would constantly be switching their poses. In an editor and compositor I could just import images and put them onto the timeline together. Also, it seems like most of them do not have what I am looking for, specifically the free ones and lower priced ones like Shotcut, Openshot, Kdenlive, Filmora, Olive, VSDC, Davinci Resolve, etc. The best one I saw was from Hitfilm, but I'm not ready to pay that much yet especially just to have a zooming feature along with it, maybe later down the line if I was making more money, but for now I'd like to find something under or around $150. Even typing down exactly what I'm looking for gives me weird results so now I'm trying to search each individual program to see exactly what they can do. I guess there is lightworks too, but it doesn't seem to have the actual 3D camera which would make it difficult to see how close or far something is to the camera. Something more like Hitfilm would be better.

[Greenlaw]

I know zooming and positioning are two different things, but I meant that zooming is another vital feature I need and it seems like most editors can do that. However, I don't really want to be switching back and forth from Hitfilm to another program just to zoom in and out.

Ok, but FWIW I think most video editors can handle 'motion comics' style of animation. Which editor are you using?

I use Vegas Pro which can do that. I believe Premiere can handle that too but if I was using the CC suite, I'd probably still do it in Ae and then import the shot to Premiere. It's just easier with more flexibility this way. CC may be subscription but you do get a HUGE suite of programs to work with. It's actually a pretty good value if you use at least two or three of the programs routinely. (I use at least five or six of programs every week.)

Fusion can certainly do that and working with nodes can actually be easier and more powerful than working with layers. For example, the characters in Scareplane were entirely animated in Moho but much of the camera and layer animation was done in Fusion. The key is in laying out your nodes in a visually sensible manner. (As opposed to a unprofessional 'spaghetti' layout.)

Also, even in a nodal system like Fusion or Nuke, you're still working in layers. If it helps, you can lay out your nodes to resemble a layers structure, and still have the flexibility to re-use your elements and effects in a way that is impossible in a layers-based compositing program.

As mentioned, Moho can certainly handle that with ease as well.

Not sure what to suggest beyond that. FWIW, it's not uncommon to use multiple programs in a production, and it doesn't necessarily make things more difficult. On the contrary, if you have a good workflow, using multiple programs can greatly simplify the work.

Hope this helps.

[FoundPebble]

I was using shotcut. I think you are right about using multiple programs though. I haven't seen people use multiple editors, but it could work if I have good workflow.

[Greenlaw]

Since you have Moho and you're familiar with it, I would recommend using that.

Just import your storyboard elements to Moho and lay them out for animation. You can use masking, or maybe even better use the new interactive Smart Warp Layer to cut out the elements. Or if the board frame is prepared in a paint program and exported as layered PSD, you can use that. No rigging necessary for 'motion comics' style unless you want it. Animating and rendering these elements in Moho for your editor should only take a few minutes.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[FoundPebble]

I have an old version of moho so I don't have smart warps. I just realized one problem with trying to use multiple programs, I won't be able to do a parallax zom. If I try to zoom in, it's just going to make the image bigger rather than the parallax zoom that I would want to achieve with a 3D camera/workspace since when I export the project, it's just goinng to be the video rather than the original files if you get what I mean.
Also, I prefer a video editor's timeline where you either see the actual content you put there on the timeline or see the full description. Doing it in moho, it won't be the same, and I feel like it would be more confusing to have each picture change from one png to the next unless I seperate everything into a ton of individual layers.

[FoundPebble]

I've done more research, asking people, posting online, and asking company support teams, and I really can't find anything else. Do these things seriously just not exist other than Hitfilm and Adobe? I guess I will consider using either moho or figuring out something with Hitfilm unless I or somebody else finds something.

[Greenlaw]

I have an old version of moho so I don't have smart warps.

No prob, just using masking. I don't know which version of Moho you have but masking has been available for many years. In versions before 13.5, draw the mask in a vector layer around your bitmap, drag the vector layer under the bitmap layer, and then enable masking in the group settings.

I just realized one problem with trying to use multiple programs, I won't be able to do a parallax zom.

Not necessarily. I use multiple programs for everything I do at home and at work, and I can still can have parallax effects in my projects. So long as the program your currently in has a 3D camera and your able to position the layers in z-space, you can have parallax. A good example is my old Hearts Like Fists titles...nearly every scene is animated in both Moho and After Effects, and you can see parallax effects all over that production. (Final editing was done in Vegas Pro.) Actually my first Moho animation project Scareplane may be a better example...a lot of the 3D camera and layering is done in Moho but, some of it was rendered from Moho and assembled for 3D camera work in Lightwave or in Fusion. Everything was composited in Fusion, and like HLF, all of the final shots were assembled in Vegas Pro.

AFAIK, many 2D animation programs (like Moho, Harmony, TVPaint, Adobe Animate) and compositing programs (After Effects, Fusion, HitFilm, Nuke) support a 3D environment, and some video editing programs (Vegas and Adobe Premiere come to mind.) FWIW, this sort of animation is not typically done using video editors though because it's much easier to do this in a 3D or 2D animation program or compositing program. These days I mainly use After Effects, Moho, or LightWave for 3D layouts, and recently, I started using Blender for this. (At my workplace I use Moho, Ae, Nuke and Maya.) It's really easy since any of these programs let you import image sequences and you can position layers or 3D cards in space. When I'm done creating the animation, I export a video clip and bring that into my video editor. Some of these programs will even let you exchange camera and object data. You just need to plan what you're going to do before you do it.

So there are many ways to do this sort of thing, some costly, some inexpensive, and some even free. When you settle on a solution, please post. Curious to hear what you decide on.

Good luck!

[Greenlaw]

Hi, I am trying to make a moving animatic. Something where each frame doesn't have much movement from pose to pose, but the images themselves are stil dragged and stretched across the screen.

I was using shotcut....

Hi,

It's interesting to hear you use Shotcut. Many years ago, I wanted to develop an animation course for children, and I had considered including Shotcut as part of the curriculum. I did quite a lot of work on that project using my child Sienna as a guinea pig (Sienna was about 8 at the time,) but for various reasons I abandoned this project. (Today Sienna is a very good animator but that has more to do with their own dedication and self-study to this subject. I'm just their cheerleader.)

Anyway, after hearing you use Shotcut, I decided to check out the current version to see what's new. At a glance, it looks pretty decent to me, especially for being a free program. Hmm...now it has me thinking of reviving my 'animation class for kids' project. (Maybe I can convince Sienna to collaborate with me again.)

I did notice that Shotcut supports animated transforms for layers, so if you really want to create animatics with limited animation (i.e., motion comics style,) the program appears capable of it. From what I see in this YouTube video Shotcut - How to Move Images (Animate Movement), for example, Shotcut allows you to keyframe panning, rotation and scaling of layers. Since it doesn't support 3D, you won't have true parallax effects but I would think this is all you really need for an animatic. You can save animating real 3D moves for when you're ready to work on the actual production animations later. (If I have time, I'll play around with it tonight to test what it's really capable of. Will post what I think then.)

Hope this helps.

[FoundPebble]

I think it's pretty neat that you are doing an animation course. Younger me woud have loved to enroll in that course. My best wishes goes out to you and your ideas.

I was originally intending on using Shotcut for my final projects when all I was aiming for was simple edits of different shots and scenes. At the time I was using blender to actually animate. However, my computer began acting really slow with blender and I didn't even have that many layers. When I tried putting frames for a ten second video, that made everything even slower.

Then I was thinking using rigs in moho, but I'm more of a drawing person than an animator. Maybe one day in the near future I will do some rigs again. I really want to, but at least for now it will be more suited for me to convey all the poses and faces I need by just drawing them rather than trying to rig them. I know that will take up a ton of space, but I do have an external hard drive and do plan on drawing each character on one layer for the most part in addition to reusing the basic ones.

Thank you for the video and suggestion. I will try using Shotcut againto see if I can acheive what I was going for. I think I set my expectations of what the final product should look like too high. Years ago I wanted tv grade animation, but as one person with no formal training, low budget, and nobody else on the team for now, that would be nearly impossible. I still want some level of professionalis like some level of lighting, and expressiveness to each character, but I have to remember this is supposed to be somewhat of a hobby too. It doesn't have to be perfect.

I was looking into Hitfilm's features again and I was able to figure out a way to get around not being able to zoom in. Even though I can't use the effect, I can still manually scale everything and key it in. I also really do like the free version's features, even if it is limited and the add ons are gone. I won't be able to do stuff like have an inner glow or inner shadow, but I can still hopefully turn a day scene into a night scene without having to redraw the same thing, but with a darker color scheme. I do really like the way hitfilm is laid out such as the project bin being there with full images of the files, the 3d camera, etc. If things don't work out with Shotcut, I really want to go for Hitfilm free. Then when I get a better income stream, I will switch to Hitfilm Pro. The price isn't bad, but I'm real short on money right now.

[Greenlaw]

...Shotcut allows you to keyframe panning, rotation and scaling of layers...

Correction: Shotcut's layer settings allows you to keyframe layer panning and scaling but it doesn't seem to do rotation. It's odd that rotation isn't supported but maybe that'll arrive in the future.

Correction to my correction: Never mind, Shotcut does allow you to keyframe rotation. Instead of doing this in the layer settings, add a Rotate and Scale filter. This filter also lets you keyframe position, so it probably makes more sense to do all of your layers transforms here instead of with the layer settings. TBD.

Yeah, I'm going to revive that 'Animation for Kids' class project. Finding a free and easy to use video editor was one of my requirements and I think I found it.

[Hoptoad]

Personally, I would use DaVinci Resolve. I wouldn't use nodes, I would use zoom.

And I definitely I wouldn't bother trying to manipulate drawings in a 3D space. If I planned to have some 3D-like animation in the final cartoon, I would draw numerous animatic drawings that placed the objects in new positions. Unless you are trying to impress a client, why bother with 3D? To save time? If I'm the sole animator and each drawing is taking me more than 20 seconds, I'm probably being too detailed.

Nothing on Earth is faster than a sketch.

Hey, that sounded cool.

Nothing on Earth is faster than a sketch.
Original quotation by Tony (Hoptoad).