Shapes being duplicated when drawing

[gfxdug]

I'm fairly new to Moho, so I'm not sure if this is a bug or intended behavior.

When drawing into an existing shape, Moho appears to create duplicates of the shape on top of the old version. This appears to stack shapes–and in my example, when using brush strokes, makes the strokes appear heavier (which is how I even noticed the issue).

Looking for feedback if this is a bug, a setting, or if I am not understanding the drawing process correctly.

Vid walking through an example.

Thanks for any help.

https://youtu.be/PBBjcwCoYXs

[Greenlaw]

Hi,

From viewing your video, the way the additional line segments are drawn will indeed create a second and third shape (the new stroke shapes are not part of the rectangular shape.) This is normal, as the animator may wish to apply different Styles to each created shape. For example...



One tricky aspect for new Moho users is understanding that a curve is a completely separate item from a shape. A curve can contain many shapes, some stacked, some partially overlapping other shapes, and some shapes completely detached from other shapes in the same curve drawing. The result depends on how the curves are drawn, and how the shapes are created on the curve.

It may help to think of curves as the invisible skeleton of a drawing and the shapes are the visible (i.e., renderable) skin stretched over the bones of this skeleton.

Now, if you want the entire thing to be created as a single Shape, this is possible. First, create your paths with Auto Fill and Auto Stroke disabled. The result is a wireframe of the box with the two interior lines. Now, select all the points and paths, select Create Shape, and press enter. The result is a single shape with the same single Style applied. Here's an example...



You can create very complex single-shape drawings this way, but I wouldn't obsess too much about creating an entire drawing as a single shape. For many drawings, that's not even practical.

Anyway, this is just one way to work with Moho drawings. Moho's curves and shapes system is quite flexible, and there are many different ways to create and animate curves and shapes in Moho, and it may take some practice and experimentation to get the hang of it.

BTW, stacking shapes is a valid rigging and animation technique in Moho. You don't want to stack shapes unnecessarily, but there are times when stacking shapes can be a valuable technique. For example, you might want to stack multiple circle shapes in a single circular curve, and changing their stacking order using a Smart Bone to animate a traffic signal. (I've actually had to do that a few times.)

Since we're on the subject of the difference between Curves and Shapes, Curves can serve other functions in Moho besides creating shapes. For example, using the Follow Path tool, you can use a Curve as a motion path for other layers, or as a deformer for artwork in those layers. (In Moho 14, we have the new Curver layer that does something similar but with a more streamlined UI and implementation. Underneath the new UI, it's a Curve, though.)

Hope this helps, and have fun!

[Greenlaw]

Tip: I often create entire drawings as curves-only (i.e., just wireframes) before creating any shapes. Then I start selecting points and using the Create Shape tool to build the 'skins'. This probably seems like an odd workflow, but sometimes I find it's easier and faster to create drawings in two separate stages like this.

It's not unlike the workflow for creating models for 3D animation, which is first to build the geometry, and then create the materials and textures. Or, if you are a traditional painter, first sketch the drawing, then apply the paint.

[Daxel]

Hi,

From viewing your video, the way the additional line segments are drawn will indeed create a second and third shape (the new stroke shapes are not part of the rectangular shape.) This is normal, as the animator may wish to apply different Styles to each created shape. For example...

I think the problem is that the new stroke shapes are not limited to the new strokes like in your image. What your image shows is what I think it's the user expected behaviour. But these new stroke shapes are actually being created using every conected point including the entire square again, resulting in an unwanted duplicate of the square shape.

I tested it in both Moho 13.5 and 14 and I see this happens when autostroke is enabled, probably because how autostroke works under the hood. Just drawing the stroke points in the opposite order (creating the first stroke point in the square line and the second stroke point inside the square) won't trigger autostroke. I think that happens because when you are drawing with the Add Points tool, autostroke doesn't create strokes each time you add a new point, but only when it detects you "closed" a vector drawing, and at that moment it seems to use all conected points to create the new shape, resulting in this unexpected duplicated shapes.

This may not be considered a bug, but I think it is an usability problem. It's not what is expected and it's also hard to notice but can be problematic.

If I understood correctly, one way to improve it could be to make that when autostroke is triggered it doesn't create the new shape taking every connected point but only the conected points that are currently not part of any shape. That would result in the image above.

Interestingly, I think they already have the tech to do that, because in Moho 13.5, the freehand has an autostroke option and an Autoweld option, and when you have both enabled you can make those strokes conected to a shape and the autostroke won't create the new shape using every conected point but only the points of the new stroke. So maybe they could make this improvement to the add points tool quite easily, or maybe it is not that simple because actually the Freehand autoweld option was removed from Moho 14, along with the trim options. So those features may have given them problems and they may be working to fix them and add them back in the future.

To avoid these kind of things and have full control over the creation of shapes I usually work like Greenlaw, with autostroke and autofill disabled.

[gfxdug]

Hey Greenlaw & Daxel

Much appreciated! Both of these replies are very helpful.

I do see how the current functionality can be used, but I agree with Daxel regarding the usability, especially for those coming from traditional vector-based drawing tools like Illustrator. If I hadn't been using a non-solid brush stroke, it may have taken me a lot longer to understand what was happening. I have also gotten some weird behavior with strokes and masking, but that's another post.

If I wanted to stack duplicate shapes, seems like a COPY>PASTE IN PLACE type command would allow a bit more expected control. However, in-no-way do I want to take away from what the developer(s) have done with Moho–it's a pretty amazing tool and seems to be getting better!

Glad to be on board with Moho and thanks again for the comprehensive replies.